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  1. #2266
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    It wasn't. The entire plot came down to the fact that the Avengers and Wolverine were wrong to try and prevent the Phoenix from getting to Hope even if they tried to dress it up like they were the only reason she was able to control it (see: she wasn't. She definitely didn't need that BS Iron Fist training), the Phoenix was never trying to destroy the Earth. And then look at what happened the next time the Phoenix came around: the Avengers literally did not care, probably because they were proven incorrect.
    Hope needed the Iron Fist and Wanda training ... because she was separated from her Lights.

    Hope needed the help of the Avengers to control the Phoenix for a situation created by the Avengers. If she had stayed with her Lights she could have controlled the Phoenix at first, it is because of forcing her to go alone to the Moon that she could not.

  2. #2267
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    He made more mistakes, the problem is that he became the cool edge rebel and nobody can't ever say he wasn't right. There is a lot more nuance on it
    Like what? The X-Office keeps saying he did awful stuff... and then never tell what it was. He was Hitler for during IvX for... what exactly?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #2268
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The only mistake he made was putting Laura on the assassination squad. I don't think he deserved to be called Hitler for that.
    the whole X-Force thing was a mistake. Seriously, why was Rahne there? What was her history with cold blooded murder?

    Of course, neither Scott or Logan ever suffered consequences for that whole shindig. Storm said she’d never talk to Logan again and two years later they’re sharing a bed.

  4. #2269
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    the whole X-Force thing was a mistake. Seriously, why was Rahne there?
    Yeah, the roster was questionable. The idea was sound at that time. The worst of the worst like the Purifiers and the Reavers needed to be killed before they picked off more students.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #2270
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Like what? The X-Office keeps saying he did awful stuff... and then never tell what it was. He was Hitler for during IvX for... what exactly?
    they backtracked the Hittler stuff. it was fake news

  6. #2271
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    Rahne was there because in Messiah Complex the X-force is really assembled with all the trackers, then the team stayed the same, basically because Kyle & Yost wanted to.

  7. #2272
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Rahne was there because in Messiah Complex the X-force is really assembled with all the trackers, then the team stayed the same, basically because Kyle & Yost wanted to.
    They were assembled because they were trackers, yes, but their goal was to kill Cable.

  8. #2273
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    They were assembled because they were trackers, yes, but their goal was to kill Cable.
    it wasnt to kill Cable. Their primary objective was to locate Hope, whom happened to be with Cable

    Rahne was only active in the first arc of X-Force from what I recall and spent the rest of the series on the sidelines. She didnt need to be there past that initial arc as he doesnt do anything besides get pregnant
    Last edited by Havok83; 06-24-2019 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #2274
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    it wasnt to kill Cable. Their primary objective was to locate Hope, whom happened to be with Cable

    Rahne was only active in the first arc of X-Force from what I recall and spent the rest of the series on the sidelines. She didnt need to be there past that initial arc as he doesnt do anything besides get pregnant

  10. #2275
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    They were assembled because they were trackers, yes, but their goal was to kill Cable.
    X-Force had to recover Hope from Cable at any cost. This implies that they could kill Cable if they considered that it was necessary but it was not the objective of the mission.

  11. #2276
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    X-Force had to recover Hope from Cable at any cost. This implies that they could kill Cable if they considered that it was necessary but it was not the objective of the mission.
    Everyone knew Cable wasn't going to give that baby up.

  12. #2277
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    X-Force had to recover Hope from Cable at any cost. This implies that they could kill Cable if they considered that it was necessary but it was not the objective of the mission.
    Exactly. The main focus was always Hope, not assasinate Cable

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Everyone knew Cable wasn't going to give that baby up.
    Killing him wasnt the only way to seperate them

  13. #2278
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Anyway it's still pretty hardcore/messy to give your team permission to use deadly force against your son, that can not be excused. The problem is that Cable refused to communicate because he knew that the X-Men were infiltrated but Scott had no way of knowing that Bishop was nuts.

  14. #2279
    Spectacular Member Captain Buttocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    it wasnt to kill Cable. Their primary objective was to locate Hope, whom happened to be with Cable

    Rahne was only active in the first arc of X-Force from what I recall and spent the rest of the series on the sidelines. She didnt need to be there past that initial arc as he doesnt do anything besides get pregnant
    Yep. She got injected with heroin and then ate Reverend Craig because that's Way Cool.

    She got yanked out of another book where she had an actual plotline and purpose for those very important developments. (Seriously - what was with Marvel and cannibalism around that time? Remember Ultimatum?) In fairness, one of the primary reasons crossovers exist is to annoy the Hell out of Peter David, so there is a bit of fun to be had there....

  15. #2280
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Anyway it's still pretty hardcore/messy to give your team permission to use deadly force against your son, that can not be excused. The problem is that Cable refused to communicate because he knew that the X-Men were infiltrated but Scott had no way of knowing that Bishop was nuts.
    At the time Scott assumed Cable had unleashed sentinels on them and infected two regular humans with the nano version and only someone completely unhinged would do that kind of stuff. Particularly considering kids were almost killed during Bishop's little stunt, since he needed that sweet infant pentakill. Using lethal force was better than risking seeing what a sociopath who'd do stuff like that would try next. Scott's reasoning was certainly not moral, but it was either MAYBE killing Cable or letting him use Hope for more fucked up stuff, as assumed at that given moment.
    Last edited by PrezValentine; 06-24-2019 at 05:43 PM.
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