House of X / Powers of X reveal

[Wiccan]

So Bendis and Remender have different views on the matter. Neither of them are right nor wrong.

Nah, Bendis is right and Remender doesn't understand shit about mutants or minorities in general, simple as that.

Seriously though, I know he had good intentions with that speech and the idea of it isn't that bad in general, but it was just executed so horribly.

[Zelena]

Agreed. I see it as kind of a word trick to segment and keep people 'separate' from the whole.

In the story context, I thought Alex's speech was fine. There's also room [in fact, need] for many different ideologies on the spectrum to be shared in X-men. To differentiate the characters. Also there's much worse dialogue in these books...

Once my drawing teacher said: "The problem is we used the same words to say differents things." And there's also that the meaning of words tends to shift, too…
"Mutant" is hateful to Alex, a fact to Kitty and if you deny a fact, you deny a part of her being…

In my opinion, Alex's speech and Kitty's little story complement one another. (Not everyone can be a great speaker.)

[Maestroneto]

This all just reminds me of Guggs having Kitty do a Havok speech as well.

[spirit2011]

Nah, Bendis is right and Remender doesn't understand shit about mutants or minorities in general, simple as that.

Seriously though, I know he had good intentions with that speech and the idea of it isn't that bad in general, but it was just executed so horribly.

It didn't worked how Remender thought it would work. It was Yiikes

Actually Remender is wrong in that Alex is only called a mutant because he lets the world know he is a mutant. If he wants to walk around being your typical person he has a choice. Beast, Anole, Rockslide, Pixie and other mutants who can't just walk down the street and be all "hey don't call me mutant, call me Pixie." would have been stoned. So anyway you look at it Alex showed his privilege.

Mutants with aparent mutations are harder to blend

[Snoop Dogg]

The M word is also everything I hate. In part because I can't spell.

[Triniking1234]

This all just reminds me of Guggs having Kitty do a Havok speech as well.

Was that during one of the issues with the racist politician?

The M word is also everything I hate. In part because I can't spell.

spoilers:

Marmalade

end of spoilers

[Maestroneto]

Was that during one of the issues with the racist politician?

X-Men Prime

[Glio]

The problem of being mutant is that one thing is to be Beast, Rogue or Cyclops and another is to be Storm, Magneto or Xavier. Their experience of being mutant can not be more different.

Well, actually Beast is a bad example because the reason he's furry and blue is that it's his fault.

[salarta]

Hi! I'm going to jump in here.

When judging things like the "don't call me the m word" speech, two important details need to be considered: intent, and if it fits the character.

Whether or not something a character says or does resonates with someone comes second to whether or not it's appropriate for that character to hold such views or do such things. Some people may absolutely love Snyder's idea of Superman, the horridly depressing and grimdark Batman knockoff angle, but it went completely against the whole concept of Superman as a hopeful and inspiring hero figure. If someone wants to tell such a story, they need to use a character that fits the concept or create one.

That said, of what I've personally seen, it looks like not wanting to be called the m word and wanting to avoid mutant culture fits his character. However, I'm not a Havok fan. Fans of the character are better able to judge if it makes sense for him.

The other detail of intent can't be overlooked regardless of if it fits the character. At the time the "don't call me the m word" speech was made, Marvel and the Avengers books were in full swing trying to tear down the X-Men franchise. Disney/Marvel clearly didn't like Fox having the film rights to the X-Men and took it out on anything they could control. This is why events like Avengers vs X-Men and Axis reframed X-Men things to benefit the Avengers while hurting the X-Men. Genosha gets exploited by Red Skull, Prof X dies and then his brain gets used by Red Skull, etc. I remember someone pointing out how in Uncanny Avengers, Rogue was written giving weak straw woman arguments to support mutants, while on X-Men books she was written saying actual good arguments. Also, let's not forget, it was around this same time that a) Marvel abruptly cut the X-Men books down by more than half (from ~14 or 18, to ~7), and b) initially refused to have any X-Men panels at one of the conferences until backlash led them to reluctantly add X-Men to a panel dedicated to Inhumans.

Within this context, what we see is that Havok's speech wasn't at all about trying to tell a good story, properly represent the character, or share views and generate discussion. Its purpose was to cut the legs out from under the X-Men franchise at a time when that's what higher ups wanted to see.

Is there technically value in what happened? Sure. But that value doesn't override if it doesn't fit the character or if it was done in bad faith.

[Snoop Dogg]

nah rick just fucked up, the sentiment's pretty cute, tho

[adamTPTK]

As someone who considers mutant metaphor to be as much about individualism as it is about tribalism, I do think the intention behind Remender's speech completely on point. But as far as execution goes, it couldn't be more wrong. He makes the comparison between the M-word as it is the N-word, but this is 100% senseless because "mutant" isn't a derogatory. It's basically "J-word" instead of a Jew, "A-word" instead of African/Asian, etc. Like, what the hell was he even thinking? And where were the editors? It is simply idiotic in this form. Too bad, because the intention behind it is welcomed.

[Glio]

In Uncanny Avengers we had Thor defending infanticide and Cap more concerned about the reputation of the Avengers than the death of a child.

We can not ask much more in characterization.

[Maestroneto]

In Uncanny Avengers we had Thor defending infanticide and Cap more concerned about the reputation of the Avengers than the death of a child.

We can not ask much more in characterization.

And Wanda saying the Decimation was a good thing and that mutants need to stop whining.

[spirit2011]

In Uncanny Avengers we had Thor defending infanticide and Cap more concerned about the reputation of the Avengers than the death of a child.

We can not ask much more in characterization.

Ah Remender

[U.N. Owen]

And Wanda saying the Decimation was a good thing and that mutants need to stop whining.

I say mutants need to stop whining about extinction since it happens every Wednesday, but even I found Uncanny Avengers insufferable.