House of X / Powers of X reveal

[salarta]

Dude, that was... Harsh. I mean we've all been thinking it, but still...

I mean, it doesn't really apply, but it's a thing that he could say.

I don't think the favorites of anyone are doing too well these days. In the X-books at least, when they leave they're usually fine (most recent example being Cyclops in Champions).

As bad as it sounds, it's good to know other people are similarly affected. It demonstrates that the problem isn't just with treatment of one character, it's much broader and deeper, negatively impacting the entire line. Focusing on one particular character is easy for a fan of that character to do, but it's a deep dive case study of something more common than it should be.

And it does suck when your favs. fall into the category of constant degradation & embarrassment.

What I'm about to say below isn't directed at you, as I know from your posts that you don't agree with Marvel's behaviors. It's more picking up from and adding my own views to what you said that I'm quoting.

The category of constant degradation and embarrassment shouldn't even exist. Writers should care about the characters they're wrong. Not just their personal faves, or who they're focused on, but all of them. At least enough to treat them well. I may heavily focus on Lorna, but I've noticed it hurting other characters too - and called it out in those cases. Sugar Man shouldn't have been written as stupid enough to try to use metal weapons against Magneto at the end of the Magneto solo. Pietro shouldn't have been written as mustache-twirly, cowardly, evil traitor son in Secret Wars: House of M just for Polaris to look good. These characters deserve better.

But people at Marvel seem to think making one character good requires tearing down another character at all times, and as far as I'm aware, it seems to go back to at least the Claremont era. Which could also explain why it's so rampant. People working at Marvel have such a nostalgia-obsessed attitude that they cherish even the toxic parts as if they're treasures. They lack the imagination needed to see any other way of doing things.

[TheDeadSpace]

I mean, it doesn't really apply, but it's a thing that he could say.



As bad as it sounds, it's good to know other people are similarly affected. It demonstrates that the problem isn't just with treatment of one character, it's much broader and deeper, negatively impacting the entire line. Focusing on one particular character is easy for a fan of that character to do, but it's a deep dive case study of something more common than it should be.



What I'm about to say below isn't directed at you, as I know from your posts that you don't agree with Marvel's behaviors. It's more picking up from and adding my own views to what you said that I'm quoting.

The category of constant degradation and embarrassment shouldn't even exist. Writers should care about the characters they're wrong. Not just their personal faves, or who they're focused on, but all of them. At least enough to treat them well. I may heavily focus on Lorna, but I've noticed it hurting other characters too - and called it out in those cases. Sugar Man shouldn't have been written as stupid enough to try to use metal weapons against Magneto at the end of the Magneto solo. Pietro shouldn't have been written as mustache-twirly, cowardly, evil traitor son in Secret Wars: House of M just for Polaris to look good. These characters deserve better.

But people at Marvel seem to think making one character good requires tearing down another character at all times, and as far as I'm aware, it seems to go back to at least the Claremont era. Which could also explain why it's so rampant. People working at Marvel have such a nostalgia-obsessed attitude that they cherish even the toxic parts as if they're treasures. They lack the imagination needed to see any other way of doing things.

Well said. Every part of it.

[ARkadelphia]

I did not mean to be harsh in my comments about broadening character likes beyond Polaris to Sakarta. Sometimes as humans we get lost in the weeds in our likes and obsessions and forget that this is all supposed to be a fun hobby and it really shouldn’t make people as miserable as it sometimes seems. But he also hinted that his love of the character may have come from books with Polaris being passed down to him from family member. That type of character bond makes sense to me so il make no more comments about how/why people should enjoy this medium.

[salarta]

I did not mean to be harsh in my comments about broadening character likes beyond Polaris to Sakarta. Sometimes as humans we get lost in the weeds in our likes and obsessions and forget that this is all supposed to be a fun hobby and it really shouldn’t make people as miserable as it sometimes seems. But he also hinted that his love of the character may have come from books with Polaris being passed down to him from family member. That type of character bond makes sense to me so il make no more comments about how/why people should enjoy this medium.

Thanks for clearing up the intent behind your previous post. I can see and understand where you're coming from, but I disagree about it simply being a fun hobby. Fiction is very powerful - and I think people are becoming more and more aware of that lately. What I always point out is, representation inspires children. Concepts like those in Star Trek inspire people to try to create new technologies, or go into space. Some people spend their whole lives doing certain jobs because a work of fiction gave them that interest. On the darker side, some people go into forensics thinking it will be like shown in CSI and discover the truth only too late. In comics, two powerful non-Polaris examples that come to mind are Neil Gaiman's Sandman series (particularly his story with Wanda), and right now, Peter David's short "Leah" Spider-Man comic. Ultimately, I see something in the things I care about that are of the same value - even if other people don't see that.

I also need to clarify something. I didn't inherit Polaris books from a family member. That was someone else on Twitter whose tweet I shared in the Magnus family thread. It really touched me, and I felt it showed how deep and long-lasting some attachments to Lorna are, contrary to how Marvel sees her. The parts of Lorna's history that I talk about most resonate with me though in a different way. My introduction to Lorna (and sorry for repeating to those who've seen this before) was randomly finding her on the Marvel wikia. When I found out about her, I immediately went out to my nearest LCS and bought anything I saw that had her on the cover. Which of course included some terrible depictions, but she was new to me. That experience partly fuels why I'm so spirited in wanting more for her. That's over 20 years I could've known about her and didn't. And it took her for me to get interested in the comics.

[OblivionX33]

Sounds like a pretty limiting experience imo.

[Shadowcat]

These books were passed down to me, and I’m very attached to the X-Men, especially Claregod’s work, but I’ll never make myself miserable over the treatment of them. If I don’t like the books, I’ll just stop buying them, and buy/read older issues.

[OblivionX33]

Especially when your favorite is a flux villain and a bit of a Starlet Witch redux in truth. They don't seem to do well with most flux villains, especially if writers aren't or weren't attached to them. When they were created. Even more so if they were created to fill a spot.

[ColossusFan]

Really enjoy the varying looks of Storm over the years cover!

And the Illyana/Piotr/Dani mystery woman cover by Stephanie Hans is gorgeous...now just tell us WHO SHE IS!!!

Looks like you'll need to add another name to that list

If you look at the second tweet in this article looks like she's phasing through a wall

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05...cret-revealed/

[Omega Alpha]

As bad as it sounds, it's good to know other people are similarly affected. It demonstrates that the problem isn't just with treatment of one character, it's much broader and deeper, negatively impacting the entire line. Focusing on one particular character is easy for a fan of that character to do, but it's a deep dive case study of something more common than it should be.
.

Yes, bad character treatment can happen even when the books are doing well (your mexample of Polaris under Claremont is a good one), but when the (by far) most acclaimed appearances in the last few years of even major characters like Storm (BP), Cyclops (Champions) and Emma (Jessica Jones) are in books outside the X-family (not to mention characters like Dust in Champions or Sunspot in the Avengers books, just to mention a few examples), you know you've got a serious problem.

[Silver Fang]

Yes, bad character treatment can happen even when the books are doing well (your mexample of Polaris under Claremont is a good one), but when the (by far) most acclaimed appearances in the last few years of even major characters like Storm (BP), Cyclops (Champions) and Emma (Jessica Jones) are in books outside the X-family (not to mention characters like Dust in Champions or Sunspot in the Avengers books, just to mention a few examples), you know you've got a serious problem.

Gonna add Creed to that list. Since Apr. 2017, the best treatment he got was non-X-books like Black Widow & Iron Fist. He's not a big-name in the X-Office given their shameful treatment, but outside of it, he does pretty well.

Sadly the -Office seemed to forsake some characters a long time ago where it was just decided they wouldn't be important again, so they're up for grabs in outside books, where writers can recognize they're solid characters.

[Glio]

Gonna add Creed to that list. Since Apr. 2017, the best treatment he got was non-X-books like Black Widow & Iron Fist. He's not a big-name in the X-Office given their shameful treatment, but outside of it, he does pretty well.

Sadly the -Office seemed to forsake some characters a long time ago where it was just decided they wouldn't be important again, so they're up for grabs in outside books, where writers can recognize they're solid characters.

The problem is simpler and is not at the level of characters, is that most of the writers outside the X-Office were better than those inside.

Even characters they try to elevate as Havok or Kitty Pryde ends up doing them wrong.

[Silver Fang]

The problem is simpler and is not at the level of characters, is that most of the writers outside the X-Office were better than those inside.

Even characters they try to elevate as Havok or Kitty Pryde ends up doing them wrong.

I think it can vary & be both, depending. Some characters do in fact just have bad luck with getting stuck with bad writers. which seem plentiful in the X-Office Then other characters who are just unpopular and writers, good or bad, don't make much effort with them.

Like I mentioned to PsychoEFrost when talking about ruined favs. Emma fans fear she's being ruined for the sake of 80's villain nostalgia as of late, but Hickman may have good plans for her since he is an Emma fan, and noted that it was GenX that got him into her. She just has to get passed Rosenberg. But I am in their boat with Rachel. Her fans have really had it hard given her constant enslavement.

And with one of my favs., the only thing seen from Hix-Men was this.
tumblr_prt7kuC0HJ1ssl5cvo1_1280.jpg
Supposedly, Hickman is a high-profile writer. But even he doesn't seem to have any more planned for Creed than all of his bad writers did.

• Bendis
• Cornell
• Liu
• Rosenberg
• Pak
• Soule
• Tamaki
• Hama (for the Graydon / Mystique retcon)
• Higgins
• Austen
• Aaron (for starting the present-day Mystique pairing)
• Chaykin
• Renender to a lesser extent (pushing the romance with Mystique too hard).

Hopefully after Young, Deadpool will get better & serious again. And I have good hopes for Monet under Hickman. But if even Hickman doesn't care to fix him, Creed is doomed. Deadpool is an uphill battle but has a shot.

[JB]

And with one of my favs., the only thing seen from Hix-Men was this.
tumblr_prt7kuC0HJ1ssl5cvo1_1280.jpg
Supposedly, Hickman is a high-profile writer. But even he doesn't seem to have any more planned for Creed than all of his bad writers did.

Was something said about Creed and how Hickman would be using him? There's been a lot of interviews and tweets (I'm not on Twitter) so I may have missed something. I'm a fan of Creed as well.

[Silver Fang]

Was something said about Creed and how Hickman would be using him? There's been a lot of interviews and tweets (I'm not on Twitter) so I may have missed something. I'm a fan of Creed as well.

At this point no. Seems he's just gonna be Mystique-whipped Brotherhood jobber right now. Lol

Hickman has said nothing, but one X-Monday when Hickman was gonna answer questions, I asked if Creed's d-list jobber villain status quo would change in POX. That question didn't get picked but thus panel was released. So I guess that was suppose to be the answer. Lol

[JB]

At this point no. Seems he's just gonna be Mystique-whipped Brotherhood jobber right now. Lol

I surely hope not! I'm just going to pretend that panel is him saving their lives, taking on the brunt of the fire to protect them. :-)