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  1. #1
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    Default Zack Snyder on his critics: "You're living in an f-ing dreamworld!"

    https://twitter.com/boomborks/status...73855402930176

    With Snyder definitely gone and possibly Henry Cavill's Superman likely gone as well, seems like it would be a good time to reflect on his Superman "trilogy" (more like 2 and a half movies).

    In this clip he seems to confirm the worst of what people have always thought about him. He's permanently in the Watchmen mindset (or his version of Watchmen, Alan Moore would disagree) and not in the Superman mindset. He seems dismissive of the idea that superhero movies should be escapist fantasy and that he always wanted to make deconstructive films (which is sort of silly when you haven't even properly constructed Superman yet).

    Thoughts? How will the Zack Snyder Superman era be seen in the future with this out there?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    I saw his Watchmen movie which some people recently are trying to shill as a classic, and it's not close. Parts of it are good and so on, but it doesn't have any of the special stuff from the book. And again Snyder misunderstood the whole point of the Squid. It's too Pro-Rorschach.

    I don't see any defense or change in opinions of his DC movies. If we are talking doing a deconstruction, then Tim Burton's BATMAN RETURNS did that much better than Snyder did.

    He really didn't get Superman. I mean he basically made the sequel of Superman into a Batman reboot, and a pilot for JL. That's how little interest he had in Superman.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I saw his Watchmen movie which some people recently are trying to shill as a classic, and it's not close. Parts of it are good and so on, but it doesn't have any of the special stuff from the book. And again Snyder misunderstood the whole point of the Squid. It's too Pro-Rorschach.
    The way he shoots action in that is so telling. So much focus on the gratuitous gore and hyper-violence that was never in the book. His action scenes belong to different movies to his dialogue scenes and shows he didn't understand the comic. (as well as the positive depiction of Rorschach)

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    The way he shoots action in that is so telling. So much focus on the gratuitous gore and hyper-violence that was never in the book. His action scenes belong to different movies to his dialogue scenes and shows he didn't understand the comic. (as well as the positive depiction of Rorschach)
    I read the comic and saw the film, and I saw the Ultimate Cut or whatever the hell. The problem is that he spends way too much time on the first chapter which introduces the characters. A three hour movie adapting 12 dense issues in theory shouldn't be hard, but Rorschach gets way too much screentime and attention. Not enough is given to others. And he shortchanges the supporting characters, especially Dr. Malcolm Long. I mean Rorschach's big backstory chapter is really about him and Malcolm Long and the impact it has on him. If you are not going to do that right, then you should remove that, since from a story perspective, Manhattan, Comedian, and Ozymandias' backstory is important but Rorschach's not so much. You need Manhattan's backstory to understand his powers and the importance of Adrian's tachyon scheme, and the general world, you need Comedian's backstory to get him being Laurie's Dad, and Adrian's backstory is important in explaining why he did what he did. I also think removing the Giant Squid was a mistake. Laugh what you want, the important thing is those panels with all those bodies and destruction. If you have a R Rating and aren't going to put on-screen the comics equivalent of the opening of Saving Private Ryan and make it a bloodless thing, then you sir have no guts and as such deserve no glory. And I think Adrian Veidt was miscast. He was too obviously evil and that accent was a bizarre choice. He's supposed to look and sound like a hero on the outside. Ideally you should have Christopher Reeve or you know Robert Redford (similar to Winter Soldier).

    There's stuff in Snyder's movies that's enjoyable. Like the fight scenes in Man of Steel, Wonder Woman in BVS in general, that Batman warehouse fight. I genuinely do like the Lois/Clark romance in his movies. That was something that was an improvement on the previous films which was in the Silver Age in its attitude to women. I really wish that Justice League ended with Lois/Clark getting married since we never got that before.

    And to me the problem with Snyder is his narcissism and hypocrisy. He keeps saying fans are too nostalgic for the Donner movies. Okay fine....why is that then that your movies only feature Zod and Luthor, the villains most associated with Donner's films. Why is it that the new villain you introduce, Doomsday, literally a clone of Zod created by Luthor? Why is Luthor still a cackling moron like Hackman and not the only human who is a Brainiac-level intellect? Luthor uses Kryptonian tech to make Doomsday rather than his own stuff, similar to Luthor in the Superman Returns movie. If he isn't Luthor the great genius and Mad Scientist of the comics and the DCAU, then you are still trapped in Donnerworld and have no ground to claim for yourself.

    I mean seriously, if you're going to do Superman again...no more luthor or zod. At least for two movies. Bring in Brainiac, Metallo, Mxyzsptlk, Bizarro, Parasite. We are living in the age of the talking racoon, you can actually bring in the fun stuff.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Yikes. Really glad he's not running the DC movies anymore
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  6. #6
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Still baffled why Brainiac has never appeared in a Superman movie. Sure Lex is Superman's greatest for but do we really need him in six Superman movies?

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Still baffled why Brainiac has never appeared in a Superman movie. Sure Lex is Superman's greatest for but do we really need him in six Superman movies?
    The same reason why the X-Men movies had everyone in leather and made jokes about yellow spandex, and why Ra's Al Ghul is some title passed down through the ages and not someone who dips in lazarus pits.

    The idea of superhero movies especially with superpowered ones were effects, believability and so on. With Brainiac you have to sell an alien character, you have to do the shields, you have to do AI, and you have to do the Bottle City thing, or the more recent one where he downloads the data and destroys the original. Zod remember was a totally minor figure in comics but Richard Donner figured he could sell an alien if he is just like Superman so Evil Kryptonian it is.

    But the MCU have now changed the game by putting in all that bizarre stuff back in movies. People once said that Mxyzsptlk is too bizarre for movies but after Guardians of the Galaxy that excuse doesn't work. If you can make a talking racoon into a character we can believe in and take seriously as a personality, you can do an imp from the 5th dimension.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    “Good. Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting. Ever.”

    Zack Snyder is literally Manchester Black. I’m so glad he’s gone. And God do I hope the next Superman movie is Superman vs. the Elite.

  9. #9

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    Of course we want to live in a dream world, isn't that why people read super hero comics? If I wanted the real world I wouldn't be watching a super hero movie. ZS is so out of touch, glad he isn't making more DC movies.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Zack Snyder is literally Manchester Black. I’m so glad he’s gone. And God do I hope the next Superman movie is Superman vs. the Elite.
    Not me. I want the next Superman movie to be something refreshing. No Luthor, no Zod. I want them to do a version of Superman that gets the character and setting right. I want to see the Fortress of Solitude of the Comics with giant computers, trophy rooms and other stuff. We have never seen that in live-action...either its some kryptonian terraforming crystals which Superman hardly ever visits except to get (bad) dating advice from his Space Dad, or it's some Kryptonian ship sent to earth in the distant past that Superman and Lois stumble on...which yeah, was wacky to me.

    Superman vs. The Elite has a climax that for it to work, requires the villains and bad guys to believe that Superman can go postal and nuts, i.e. its running on the same appeal of "Evil Superman" or "Grim Dark Superman" or "isn't it scary when Superman breaks bad" that ran through Snyder's films, the Injustice games, and Red Son...I want them to do a classic traditional Superman from the Silver/Bronze Age and Post-Crisis era. I am talking Post-Byrne and Pre-doomsday. Show us this character doing something right, not screwing up, and show him being fun to see and hang out with because you need to establish that.

  11. #11
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    There are so many bizarre things about Snyder's Superman. In BvS the whole story is about him yet all he does is react to other people and has a weird obsessive relationship with Lois (someone you've dated for a year and a half should not be your "world", that's super unhealthy). There's some okay stuff in Man of Steel but it's hard to know how much of it is from him or from Nolan and Goyer (and there's still plenty of weird stuff in that too, like having Superman kill Zod in a dramatic moment that Superman never talks about again).

    I hope when we next get a cinematic Superman (and I betting Cavill and Adams will be gone then, which is a shame), we can get a proactive Superman with a balanced life. And for him to finally move beyond fighting Lex, Zod or an empty monster creature. Brainiac is obviously ideal for that.
    Last edited by EsotericFailures; 03-24-2019 at 04:17 PM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    There are so many bizarre things about Snyder's Superman. In BvS the whole story is about him yet all he does is react to other people and has a weird obsessive relationship with Lois (someone you've dated for a year and a half should not be your "world", that's super unhealthy). There's some okay stuff in Man of Steel but it's hard to know how much of it is from him or from Nolan and Goyer (and there's still plenty of weird stuff in that too, like having Superman kill Zod in a dramatic moment that Superman never talks about again).

    I hope when we next get a cinematic Superman (and I betting Cavill and Adams will be gone then, which is a shame), we can get a proactive Superman with a balanced life. And for him to finally move beyond fighting Lex, Zod or an empty monster creature. Brainiac is obviously ideal for that.
    Nolan was against the Zod Snap. He thought it was ridiculous but Snyder was insistent, and Nolan (probably not wanting to be the guy who says or vetoes another's director's vision...the real reason auteurs should never produce stuff by other auteurs...you need people willing to be "the bad guy" in such jobs) went ahead and backed Snyder on that.

    I say make the next movie Metropolis or Earth centered. We've spent so much time about Clark's Kryptonian heritage and Luthor that it's gotten boring. Show Superman dealing with stuff that isn't connected to his doomed planet and center it on Earth or Metropolis specifically

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Not me. I want the next Superman movie to be something refreshing. No Luthor, no Zod. I want them to do a version of Superman that gets the character and setting right. I want to see the Fortress of Solitude of the Comics with giant computers, trophy rooms and other stuff. We have never seen that in live-action...either its some kryptonian terraforming crystals which Superman hardly ever visits except to get (bad) dating advice from his Space Dad, or it's some Kryptonian ship sent to earth in the distant past that Superman and Lois stumble on...which yeah, was wacky to me.

    Superman vs. The Elite has a climax that for it to work, requires the villains and bad guys to believe that Superman can go postal and nuts, i.e. its running on the same appeal of "Evil Superman" or "Grim Dark Superman" or "isn't it scary when Superman breaks bad" that ran through Snyder's films, the Injustice games, and Red Son...I want them to do a classic traditional Superman from the Silver/Bronze Age and Post-Crisis era. I am talking Post-Byrne and Pre-doomsday. Show us this character doing something right, not screwing up, and show him being fun to see and hang out with because you need to establish that.
    I would love to get Brainiac but apparently they are wasting him on the Supergirl movie. I’m sick of the evil Superman story too though so I agree with you. God is too much to ask to get an actual Superman movie that loves and embraces Superman?

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I would love to get Brainiac but apparently they are wasting him on the Supergirl movie. I’m sick of the evil Superman story too though so I agree with you. God is too much to ask to get an actual Superman movie that loves and embraces Superman?
    After the DCEU emphasized these alien warlords and world-enders and so on, I kind of would agree to put Brainiac on the back-burner for the time being. At least a movie or two.

    Superman is a very layered character. You could do him ground level, foiling earthquakes, tidal waves and other disasters and so on. You can even have him do street crime i.e. Intergang and others. You know Clark Kent the Reporter. The first Superman movie by Donner set most of the stuff on earth and so on, and didn't focus much on the alien elements. So I'd say have Superman go against Parasite, Toyman, Metallo or Prankster and Intergang (call it the Superman Revenge Squad), merge it with Kirby's run on Jimmy Olsen and emphasize the weirder side of Metropolis. For the second movie, bring in Mxyzsptlk, and then bring in Brainiac.

    I'd also suggest you adapt a version of The Jungle Line, Alan Moore's great Swamp Thing/Superman story. And maybe "under the red sun" (which was done with Hereafter). Or do some of the obscure stuff in All-Star Superman, like Solaris the Tyrant Sun.

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think people with takes on comic properties like Synder have their place but I think that was always the wrong perspective to make the spearheader of a DC Cinematic Universe, and certainly wrong to try and bring Superman back into the mainstream.

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