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  1. #571
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Next Superman movie should have him at Golden Age power levels and take place totally in Metropolis. No Smallville flashbacks or origin stories.

  2. #572
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Next Superman movie should have him at Golden Age power levels and take place totally in Metropolis. No Smallville flashbacks or origin stories.
    I don't know, I think the masses are used to see Superman doing super feats and flying and big spectacle.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I can see the argument of Whedon's Clark being a caricature of what Superman can be like. I wouldn't want a whole movie of that. But it was refreshing after not getting anything like it in the previous two movies. Audiences still cite Superman as one of the few things they liked in JL so I don't think it was that much of a problem. The movie as a whole was just a dumpster fire before he even got there.

    And again, neither Whedon or Snyder is a good choice for Superman. Whedon peaked at Buffy, and Snyder is more ambitious than talented.



    People don't want a symbol. Or not JUST a symbol, they want an engaging character that they like. Which they get in droves from Marvel, and which they got from WW, Aquaman and Shazam. Yeah a lot of people liked DCEU Superman, but the general reception towards him from the majority of consumers is lukewarm if not outright sour. They means in the eyes of most consumers, he was not an engaging character. People want to like Superman, they didn't like him here or they didn't feel like they knew him well enough, that is VERY BAD for the IP and a sign that Snyder and the studio failed. What he does for those other characters is irrelevant, because they don't need Superman's narrative in their own and it doesn't benefit him. With Diana specifically, her needing Clark's sacrifice to move on from her loss and become a public hero is not something most WW fans are happy. Her narrative should not be tied to his, she can come to these conclusions on her own.




    His audience isn't the typical comic book crowd nor is it the mainstream, the latter being vastly more important. The ones who don't read comics or post on forums like this. The IP needs their money to survive, and they rejected it, so the IP took a hit. You should care about the studio putting out a product that makes money and is warmly received, because that will encourage them to make more stories with these characters. You know we're not getting any more cinematic stories for Superman for the foreseeable future, right? What do we have to look forward to? Before the divisive MOS, there was the bland Returns and further back was III and IV. The last good Superman was in the friggin 80s, which is not a source of comfort for people who want to see a good modern movie int he current superhero boom. The DCEU did a lot of damage to the IP, which may recover with time, but we've already sat through failures. And Batman isn't a concern because we are definitely getting another movie with him (Reeves and Pattinson), yet Superman has to be shelved. The tv show he's getting would be a good consolation, but the premise and people behind it do not inspire confidence.

    Harry Potter was a hit from his first story, which lead to successful adaptations. MoS was successful but very divisive. He was not beloved like Harry is, nor is he the same type of character, so that is not an apt comparison. Watching Superman go through arcs and struggle is fine, it just has to be executed well. This was not. So yeah they can enjoy the DCEU, but the character still took a hit because of it and the rest of us have to wait for these promised other avenues that never seem to come. Yet constantly seem to come for Batman. There would be less of a sting if BOTH of them got shelved and they went nuts with Wonder Woman and the others. But the Bat gets rushed back out.

    SO true..

    But I consider Man of Steel a good Superman movie and better than Superman 2 honestly. Sure, S2 was very entertaining, but Clark still quit as Superman just to sleep with a girl he hadn't even kissed... Still, Superman 2 was a popular movie for the 80s standards.

    MOS wasn't a big hit, but it did well and was loved by many and sold very well in home media. A better solo sequel would have done wonders to the IP I think. But WB had to ruin everything trying to rush things.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 11-13-2019 at 08:47 AM.

  3. #573
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Next Superman movie should have him at Golden Age power levels and take place totally in Metropolis. No Smallville flashbacks or origin stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I don't know, I think the masses are used to see Superman doing super feats and flying and big spectacle.
    If you commit to a planned out series (i.e. not what WB did with Cavill), you can make it happen. The imaginary screenplay I've been fake-writing for the next Superman movie starts out this way.

  4. #574
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    If you commit to a planned out series (i.e. not what WB did with Cavill), you can make it happen. The imaginary screenplay I've been fake-writing for the next Superman movie starts out this way.
    If it’s a gradual scale up I don’t think people will be bothered if his power levels are different from the norm. Besides it’s not like you can’t get kickass action scenes and power showcases with Golden Age Supes.

  5. #575
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    If you commit to a planned out series (i.e. not what WB did with Cavill), you can make it happen. The imaginary screenplay I've been fake-writing for the next Superman movie starts out this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    If it’s a gradual scale up I don’t think people will be bothered if his power levels are different from the norm. Besides it’s not like you can’t get kickass action scenes and power showcases with Golden Age Supes.

    He needs to eventually be able to fly or it's not a real Superman movie to me. Even in Superman the Movie, Returns and Man of Steel, his powers grow gradually, so it's canon.

  6. #576
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    He needs to eventually be able to fly or it's not a real Superman movie to me. Even in Superman the Movie, Returns and Man of Steel, his powers grow gradually, so it's canon.
    What if it were heavily foreshadowed? I mean, I don't like Smallville at all, but I don't ding them for the no-flight rule because you knew it was going to happen to Clark sometime.

  7. #577
    Constant in Opal Nine Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    He needs to eventually be able to fly or it's not a real Superman movie to me. Even in Superman the Movie, Returns and Man of Steel, his powers grow gradually, so it's canon.
    I totally get that, and I would certainly do a gradual power boost. But I think one of the real advantages of doing a slower build-up would be budget.

  8. #578
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    He needs to eventually be able to fly or it's not a real Superman movie to me. Even in Superman the Movie, Returns and Man of Steel, his powers grow gradually, so it's canon.
    You’re not going to be getting a big budget Superman movie any time soon if ever. Better prepare yourself for that. Reducing his power levels reduces the budget and that’s what I would do if I was put in charge of a Superman movie.

  9. #579
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    What if it were heavily foreshadowed? I mean, I don't like Smallville at all, but I don't ding them for the no-flight rule because you knew it was going to happen to Clark sometime.
    IMO, Smallville did it very badly because it took so long. One of the most exciting part of the Superman mythos is to see him flying for the first time, even in outer space! If he still isn't flying in a whole movie, then he is still a teenager in smallville trying to figure things out. Or does he move away from there to Metropolis or somewhere else? And doing what? Traveling the world like Cavill Supes?

  10. #580
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Youíre not going to be getting a big budget Superman movie any time soon if ever. Better prepare yourself for that. Reducing his power levels reduces the budget and thatís what I would do if I was put in charge of a Superman movie.
    If i get an agile superman again. I would welcome it. Although, i have to admit flight wasn't a restriction for that.live action People just lack imagination. I don't get it max fleischer made flight look very cool.what is so hard?

  11. #581
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    IMO, Smallville did it very badly because it took so long. One of the most exciting part of the Superman mythos is to see him flying for the first time, even in outer space! If he still isn't flying in a whole movie, then he is still a teenager in smallville trying to figure things out. Or does he move away from there to Metropolis or somewhere else? And doing what? Traveling the world like Cavill Supes?
    All the talk about Rey from Star Wars and how she figured out the force way too quickly () made me think what if WB did the opposite with Superman and made it hard for him to develop his powers and eventually master them. I think Man of Steel did OK in this regard, especially adjusting his senses to the environment, but I think a future Superman movie could take it a step further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    You’re not going to be getting a big budget Superman movie any time soon if ever. Better prepare yourself for that. Reducing his power levels reduces the budget and that’s what I would do if I was put in charge of a Superman movie.
    I can't imagine that any future Superman movie would be for a modest budget. Like, would they make a Superman movie for $150 million? But if lesser powers meant better VFX, I could be sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    If i get an agile superman again. I would welcome it. Although, i have to admit flight wasn't a restriction for that.live action People just lack imagination. I don't get it max fleischer made flight look very cool.what is so hard?
    Because until recently, there was no real frame of reference for showing a flying man in live action. It's relatively simple to do in 2D animation vs. live action. In the latter, there are a lot of details you have to simulate that if you messed up, you get a lot of the uncanny valley effect that ruins the illusion. Personally, I think Man of Steel did it pretty well, and I liked the visual of how his flight might've been some gravity-distorting property.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 11-13-2019 at 11:04 AM.

  12. #582
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Shazam was made on a very modest budget iirc. I’d expect any future Superman movie to be within the Shazam - Aquaman budget range.

  13. #583
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Shazam was made on a very modest budget iirc. I’d expect any future Superman movie to be within the Shazam - Aquaman budget range.
    I loved Shazam, but it lacked epic action, imo. Aquaman, however, had amazing epic action with great CGI and its budget was similar to Wonder Woman.

    I think Man of Steel, Aquaman and WW have had the best action sequences in all the DC movies. For some reason, Zack Snyder needs to spend more..



    Docha said,

    All the talk about Rey from Star Wars and how she figured out the force way too quickly () made me think what if WB did the opposite with Superman and made it hard for him to develop his powers and eventually master them. I think Man of Steel did OK in this regard, especially adjusting his senses to the environment, but I think a future Superman movie could take it a step further.
    OK but they need to give or show an explanation why he is struggling.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 11-13-2019 at 11:28 AM.

  14. #584
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Next Superman movie should have him at Golden Age power levels and take place totally in Metropolis. No Smallville flashbacks or origin stories.
    I'd love to see that - in fact, I wrote a basic outline years ago that starts there (think something akin to Byrne's "Generations" but much quicker)

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I don't know, I think the masses are used to see Superman doing super feats and flying and big spectacle.
    I think if it had enough "kinetic" energy in the way it's presented, people would be fine. It just needs to feel big, not necessarily be of the same scope.

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    He needs to eventually be able to fly or it's not a real Superman movie to me. Even in Superman the Movie, Returns and Man of Steel, his powers grow gradually, so it's canon.
    I like the idea of him leaping for most of the first film, then realizing he can fly at a pivotal moment near the end - and the first film setting up more of a Silver Age feel in the 2nd.
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  15. #585
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I loved Shazam, but it lacked epic action, imo. Aquaman, however, had amazing epic action with great CGI and its budget was similar to Wonder Woman.

    I think Man of Steel, Aquaman and WW have had the best action sequences in all the DC movies. For some reason, Zack Snyder needs to spend more..



    Docha said,



    OK but they need to give or show an explanation why he is struggling.
    Keep in mind one of the big criticisms of MOS was how the last 1/3 of the movie is one big CGI fight scene where Metropolis gets destroyed. I don’t think people are going to turn their noses up at a Superman movie that doesn’t reduce Metropolis to a crater.

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