Zack Snyder on his critics: "You're living in an f-ing dreamworld!"

[manwhohaseverything]

Doesn't matter how much he weighs. Terminal velocity plus unbreakable body equal crater in landscape.

I don't know dude. He didn't jump that high, the first couple of times. I can get behind him creating a crater after flight kicked in and he fell. I would have gone for something nimble.that's just my preference.

[Vordan]

I know you did. I was reiterating that isn't a fault.

Refusing to adjust according to criticism when you’re supposed to be shepherding a billion dollar cinematic universe IS a fault. But the blame mostly lies with WB for putting so much trust in him in the first place.

[manwhohaseverything]

Refusing to adjust according to criticism when you’re supposed to be shepherding a billion dollar cinematic universe IS a fault. But the blame mostly lies with WB for putting so much trust in him in the first place.

Dude, he did. He was adjusting. He even had batman say "abandoned port"..etc. Especially, with justice league . But, asking zack snyder to make joss whedon movie or something is out of the realm of possibility. It's like asking kirby to draw like alex ross.He just genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong.He can only make a movie with his leanings.

[SiegePerilous02]

Refusing to adjust according to criticism when you’re supposed to be shepherding a billion dollar cinematic universe IS a fault. But the blame mostly lies with WB for putting so much trust in him in the first place.

yes, the time to remove him from the job was after MOS. Which was divisive but salvageable. His leanings work more towards what they may be doing now with the Black Label films. Give him a smaller budget and a more obscure corner of the DCU (or tell a more experimental story within the major corners) and let him go nuts. But keep it separate from the main line.

The goal was to propel Superman back into the mainstream for a new wide audience (especially children). He was the exact wrong person to do that, but that's down on the studio for thinking he was the right person and demanding all this in the movie and then forcing him to hack it to bits. It was better in the director's cut, but there are still some inherently bad ideas and plot problems that editing won't salvage. A bloated R-rated movie with any of these characters, but especially Superman and Wonder Woman,is questionable even in safer hands.

I cannot stress this enough, having Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen get shot in the fucking face for "fun" is not a sign that DC/WB respects their characters. As is planning to have had Dick "Fourth pillar of DC" Grayson killed off screen so he can do his psycho Batman stuff. Not when the competition is making household names out of the GoTG and Dr. Strange, making Captain America relevant to modern audiences, and generally providing at least one movie for all their characters, not just the big names.

[DochaDocha]

I don't know dude. He didn't jump that high, the first couple of times. I can get behind him creating a crater after flight kicked in and he fell. I would have gone for something nimble.that's just my preference.

Okay, so my physics are really rusty, but...

If Superman weighed 200 lbs and jumped 50 ft into the air, he'd need about 13,362 J of kinetic energy. That's about the same as a one metric ton (1000 kg) car going 11.6 mph. If he jumped 100 ft, then he'd need about double the kinetic energy, which would have the same kinetic energy of a car going about 16.4 mph. All calculations not including air resistance, blah blah blah.

Golden Age Supes could jump about 1/8th a mile. If you took into account air resistance and peak launch angle, Superman would probably require about 223,000 J of kinetic energy, which is about the same as a metric ton car going 47 mph.

His takeoffs and landings are going to break some sidewalks.

[Vordan]

Dude, he did. He was adjusting. He even had batman say "abandoned port"..etc. Especially, with justice league . But, asking zack snyder to make joss whedon movie or something is out of the realm of possibility. It's like asking kirby to draw like alex ross.He just genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong.He can only make a movie with his leanings.

No he freaking wasn’t. Steppenwolf was going to get IMPALED by Aquaman and BEHEADED by WW. And Supes was going to help! The Batmobile still has guns so Batman can mow down Parademons. There was going to be more teases of Evil Superman and if Snyder got his five film arc it was going to go full edgelord in the sequel.

I get that Snyder is unable to not be Snyder. That’s why he should’ve been forced out after BvS. Again, the majority of blame lies with WB for continuing to give him chances.

[manwhohaseverything]

yes, the time to remove him from the job was after MOS. Which was divisive but salvageable. His leanings work more towards what they may be doing now with the Black Label films. Give him a smaller budget and a more obscure corner of the DCU (or tell a more experimental story within the major corners) and let him go nuts. But keep it separate from the main line.

The goal was to propel Superman back into the mainstream for a new wide audience (especially children). He was the exact wrong person to do that, but that's down on the studio for thinking he was the right person and demanding all this in the movie and then forcing him to hack it to bits. It was better in the director's cut, but there are still some inherently bad ideas and plot problems that editing won't salvage. A bloated R-rated movie with any of these characters, but especially Superman and Wonder Woman,is questionable even in safer hands.

I cannot stress this enough, having Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen get shot in the fucking face for "fun" is not a sign that DC/WB respects their characters. As is planning to have had Dick "Fourth pillar of DC" Grayson killed off screen so he can do his psycho Batman stuff. Not when the competition is making household names out of the GoTG and Dr. Strange, making Captain America relevant to modern audiences, and generally providing at least one movie for all their characters, not just the big names.

I can agree with this. Snyder has his own way of doing things. Actually, jimmy getting killed was a gag. It's not that he didn't respect the character. It's dark humour . Each movie started having one character named jimmy get killed. He just didn't have use for him in his story. It's similar to Hamilton. As for dick, i don't know. There is still chance it is jason. Snyder himself hasn't come out. has he?

[Vordan]

I can agree with this. Snyder has his own way of doing things. Actually, jimmy getting killed was a gag. It's not that he didn't respect the character. It's dark humour . Each movie started having one. He just didn't have use for him in his story. It's similar to Hamilton. As for dick, i don't know. There is still chance it is jason. Snyder himself hasn't come out. has he?

“Dark humor”. Who was laughing? Who thought that was funny? I guess Snyder did but most people don’t laugh when people get shot in the head on screen.

[SiegePerilous02]

I can agree with this. Snyder has his own way of doing things. Actually, jimmy getting killed was a gag. It's not that he didn't respect the character. It's dark humour . Each movie started having one character named jimmy get killed. He just didn't have use for him in his story. It's similar to Hamilton. As for dick, i don't know. There is still chance it is jason. Snyder himself hasn't come out. has he?

No, it was going to be Dick
https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-d...bin-dead-dceu/

Which I can somewhat see the logic behind. It would have more of an impact for the main audience who are not a accustomed to multiple Robins, who mainly know Dick from the Adam West show. And as a self contained Black Label style movie it may have worked. But a mainstream competition to the MCU that represents their universe and characters. Baaaaaad idea. You've just crippled the chances of more Bat-Family members and the Titans right out of the gate. I doubt any other Bat-Family member besides Carrie Kelly was planned by Snyder. Ugh, we may have even gotten TDKSA Dick out of this. Dodged a big bullet there.

Nobody was laughing when Jimmy got shot. it was a waste and in poor taste.

[marhawkman]

And then when you look at the previous movie, the argument was that there wasn't enough action.

I know, I know, happy mediums and sweet spots, but Superman's seems to be a pretty small target to hit. Either that, or the franchise is in perfect disharmony in which every decision made is met with equal praise and disdain. Yikes.

That or it's basic human nature at fault. One of Aesop's fables is a demonstration of the concept of "you can't please everyone". Thus it's probably impossible to ever make a movie everyone likes.

[manwhohaseverything]

No he freaking wasn’t. Steppenwolf was going to get IMPALED by Aquaman and BEHEADED by WW. And Supes was going to help! The Batmobile still has guns so Batman can mow down Parademons. There was going to be more teases of Evil Superman and if Snyder got his five film arc it was going to go full edgelord in the sequel.

I get that Snyder is unable to not be Snyder. That’s why he should’ve been forced out after BvS. Again, the majority of blame lies with WB for continuing to give him chances.

Wonder woman has a sword and aquaman has trident. Those aren't for playing baseball. Expecting snyder to make socially exceptable violence is not going to happen. From what i get from the guy he feels its being dishonest. He would show violence in all its glory, beauty and ugliness. That's just how he likes to do things. Still, he genuinely tried making concessions regarding the whole death and destruction.
There was going to be teases of injustice/devil superman and jesus/boyscout superman. Because those are the expectations people have of the clark. For him to go insane be injustice man or the benevolent do no wrong messianic figure. These images and expectations need to be confronted in order to be laid waste. That is what he is going for. Honestly, it isn't that hard to get. for example:- Bruce expected him to go 'wrong' since he has seen it happen again and again with humans let alone with someone that powerful.
Throwing out a person in the middle of his work.Butchering it.Calling it his movie even after that. Using the excuse of his daughters death. Those are some of the nastiest thing. Imagine it being done to you.They shouldn't have brought him back in the first place.they should have Told it to his face that This isn't working.that is decent. Snyder seems to be decent guy from what i heard from his costars and others. He seems to be professional. He would have understood. But, this isn't something that should be tolerated. Snyder should have gone cm punk on wb.

[manwhohaseverything]

No, it was going to be Dick
https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-d...bin-dead-dceu/

Which I can somewhat see the logic behind. It would have more of an impact for the main audience who are not a accustomed to multiple Robins, who mainly know Dick from the Adam West show. And as a self contained Black Label style movie it may have worked. But a mainstream competition to the MCU that represents their universe and characters. Baaaaaad idea. You've just crippled the chances of more Bat-Family members and the Titans right out of the gate. I doubt any other Bat-Family member besides Carrie Kelly was planned by Snyder. Ugh, we may have even gotten TDKSA Dick out of this. Dodged a big bullet there.

Nobody was laughing when Jimmy got shot. it was a waste and in poor taste.

I mean, it was uncomfortable. I laughed because jimmy was used at all and that too got killed in the first hour. He was going to be in justice league as well.Also, this world has a jinny. Jimmy got turned to a woman

[Vordan]

Wonder woman has a sword and aquaman has trident. Those aren't for playing baseball. Expecting snyder to make socially exceptable violence is not going to happen. From what i get from the guy he feels its being dishonest. He would show violence in all its glory, beauty and ugliness. That's just how he likes to do things. Still, he genuinely tried making concessions regarding the whole death and destruction.
There was going to be teases of injustice/devil superman and jesus/boyscout superman. Because those are the expectations people have of the clark. For him to go insane be injustice man or the benevolent do no wrong messianic figure. These images and expectations need to be confronted in order to be laid waste. That is what he is going for. Honestly, it isn't that hard to get. for example:- Bruce expected him to go 'wrong' since he has seen it happen again and again with humans let alone with someone that powerful.
Throwing out a person in the middle of his work.Butchering it.Calling it his movie even after that. Using the excuse of his daughters death. Those are some of the nastiest thing. Imagine it being done to you.They shouldn't have brought him back in the first place.they should have Told it to his face that This isn't working.that is decent. Snyder seems to be decent guy from what i heard from his costars and others. He seems to be professional. He would have understood. But, this isn't something that should be tolerated. Snyder should have gone cm punk on wb.

“Laid waste”? Batman freaking made a Kryptonite spear because JESUS! That was literally why, Snyder even confirmed it! And he was going to play Injustice exactly straight except it was going to end with Batman time traveling to save Lois. Confronting Injustice would mean Lois dies and Superman DOESN’T go evil. All Snyder’s genius kino would do was hammer “Lois is the on-off switch to Superman’s morality” even harder into the mainstream.

Snyder was not “confronting” these misconceptions at all, he was playing them as straight as he freaking could.

Funny how Wan was able to avoid Aquaman murdering his brother at the end. Would do you know it IS possible to end a movie without killing the main villain!

[manwhohaseverything]

“Laid waste”? Batman freaking made a Kryptonite spear because JESUS! That was literally why, Snyder even confirmed it! And he was going to play Injustice exactly straight except it was going to end with Batman time traveling to save Lois. Confronting Injustice would mean Lois dies and Superman DOESN’T go evil. All Snyder’s genius kino would do was hammer “Lois is the on-off switch to Superman’s morality” even harder into the mainstream.

Snyder was not “confronting” these misconceptions at all, he was playing them as straight as he freaking could.

Funny how Wan was able to avoid Aquaman murdering his brother at the end. Would do you know it IS possible to end a movie without killing the main villain!

That was at the end. He didn't have much mercy to give at first. Dude, i had the discussion regarding the spear already. It isn't because jesus. Using religious imagery isn't the same as making it the character. Do you honestly think that snyder wanted everybody to think superman is jesus? Do you think snyder believes superman is jesus? The guy read goldenage superman. The chances of him thinking that are zero. As for injustice, that's an accusation based on some speculation . There is a possibility that every superman can go injustice. That doesn't mean he will go injustice. From what i know darkseid uses the freaking antilife equation and combined with the death of lois to control superman in the other timeline. Then has barry go back when earth is in the right position.
Dcau used wally's death in a similar manner. Is wally west the centre of Clark's morality?

[Vordan]

That was at the end. He didn't have much mercy to give at first. Dude, i had the discussion regarding the spear already. It isn't because jesus.
Using religious imagery isn't the same as making it the character. Do you honestly think that snyder wanted everybody to think superman is jesus? Do you think snyder believes superman is jesus? The guy read goldenage superman. The chances if him thinking that are zero. As for injustice, that's an accusation based on some speculation . There is a possibility that every superman can go injustice. That doesn't mean he will go injustice. From what i know darkseid uses the freaking antilife equation and combined with the death of lois to control superman in the other timeline. Then has barry go back when earth is in the right position.
Dcau used wally's death in a similar manner. Is wally west the centre of Clark's morality?

YES lol. I actually do think that Snyder wants us to see Superman as Jesus:
AD4BB50D-3503-49CB-B68F-7443E650F277.jpg
Add in all the crucified hero shots, “he didn’t just save us, he showed us the best part of ourselves”, “you can save them all Kal” while Superman t-poses, or that WB specifically marketed MOS as a Christian film, yes I do think that.


And the difference between the DCAU and this was that Timm and Dini made sure to put DCAU Superman in the same position as Justice Lord Superman, to show that he wouldn’t make the same choice. That was DCAU Superman’s redeeming moment. DCEU Superman wasn’t going to be that. He was going to go evil and be the ONLY one to fall. You don’t see how that would just pile on the damage Injustice did of making Supes look weak? Add to that, BATMAN was going to save the day, Superman was never going to get that redeeming moment, because it was going to be an erased timeline. If Lois dies DCEU Superman would still go evil so let’s hope Joker doesn’t pay Supes a visit post Batman’s death or everyone is screwed.

I’ve had this argument so many times and it never changes anything.