Zack Snyder on his critics: "You're living in an f-ing dreamworld!"

[manwhohaseverything]

I guess one of the magics of cinema is how same films influence every person differently. I had a completely opposite experience, prior to BvS I was depressed probably for almost a year, just trying to go through and survive each day, nothing to look forward to and nothing to keep my myself busy with that I genuenly would've enjoyed. One scene in BvS really hit me to the core and made me look at my own situation differently and actually try do something about it. I'm talking about this scene:

The line "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking". Superman had such an innocent and naive view of the world that he couldn't even think about a possibility that someone will try to bomb a peaceful meeting to discuss consequences of his actions. He began to have existential crysis. Does it mean anything to be Superman if atrocities like that are happening? Is being good a fantasy? That was something I could really relate to. Why bother trying if world will fail you with how it actually is.

Then Pa Kent dialogue happened. That was the moment that taught me that the world is bad, BUT there is also good. Even if you have a small amount of it in your life, it is still worth living for. How Lois said on the balcony scene "That farmer's dream is all some people have, it's all that gives them hope". You can translate that both for the movie and for our real world. For some people Superman is all the good they have in their lives and if he gives up, people will lose hope. Lex Luthor tried so hard to create holes in a holy, but in the end Superman saves Lex from his own monstrocity. So I gathered for myself that even if Superman can have tough times like I did and still overcome it, then so can I.

The dialogue with Martha also influenced me in a sense that I found support in her words to my own worldview. She is right that Superman doesn't owe this world a thing and never did. That makes his heroism even more precious, because if he choses to be hero because he wants to, instead of feeling obligated to do so, makes him a genuine hero.

Listen, I realize that realistic and grounded take is not for everyone. I have nothing against an escapism. What I am against is a notion that escapism is the only "correct" way to do superheroes. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

For me,i don't want escapism. I just don't get the strongman resilience from the character or proactiveness. He seems like way too reactionary. I don't see him take charge. Heck! I get that from wonder woman in bvs.they way she smiled when she got punched by doomsday and got back up was badass. So, i guess my problem is this superman isn't badass like allmight or wonder woman.look at, allmight the guy had to teach himself smile after his mentor got killed.so that he can make others feel safe. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his moments of cynicism. Every version of the Superman character has went through anything and everything clark in this movie has went through. So, he is not special. So, why shouldn't clark have any resilient smile and unyielding optmism?
allmight has his moments of cynicism. He tells deku straight up you can't be a hero without powers.it too dangerous and an unrealistic expectation for him. Be a cop or something realistic . But, that moment is not only balanced out but eclipsed by the later moments when all might goes back to being his optimistic self. He says to deku "young man, you can become a hero". We also see the reason for his moment of cynicism. His body got destroyed. His internal organ are mush. We also realise how resilient he is despite the experience.

Death of superman animated movie also had him get beat to bloody pulp. But, he always came back to assure a child its going to be ok. He never let that child know he might die fighting. This superman lacked moments like those. I guess, what i am saying is this superman doesn't have the counterbalance moment or return to usual form moments that can eclipse his moments of cynicism. Those make difference, people begin to think that this is his real self or day to day self if those are not there . A bunch of montages or paper clippings are not enough.if Snyder think these are trivial things.then i think it's a mistake.



Superman's charm and smile are important. It's their way confronting the darkness and providing strength to others when all hell brakes lose.

[manwhohaseverything]

Holy sh!t why did Dan Slott go ham af on Twitter for like an hour or something about Man of Steel for like no reason today lmao ?

Like, don't get me wrong, I got no kinda love for those movies at all for a bunch of reason, and I'm not making fun of Slott, but.....like, why tho, Dan lol ?

And dude, he took it to the mats too, man. He was out here replying an sh!t, throwin snark, and really gettin into it. And whole time I'm like "damn, Dan baby, what is you doin" hahaha

Yeah! I saw it. I don't agree. He makes superman into the elric brothers in characterisation. When in fact superman is more like gohan.gohan has killed

[JAK]

People are not forced to like every Superman movie or show. We pay with our hard earned $$ to see our hero on the big screen done justice, so if we feel he wasn't well represented, we are totally allowed to say it and complain.

Also, I haven't seen enough people complaining about the last year animated Death of Superman movie or All Star Superman. Maybe because to most those Superman tales were done very well and presented our hero like we want and expect.

Funny enough, I completely expected to hate the animated DoS because it was set in the New52 universe. I was pretty vocal about how DoS didn't "belong to that Superman" and that they didn't force "Batman: The Killing Joke" into that crap, so wth? But it won me over. Big time. MoS was exactly the opposite. I went in excited, and left sick to my stomach for a week.

I think it will continue to be more divisive than Returns because, well, Returns was attempting more of the same with a somewhat similar tone to what we expected. Snyder's vision is very teenage edgy and plays at being intelligent when, frankly, it is poorly thought. It was far more ambitious and it very much tried, I will always give Snyder that if nothing else, but strictly because this series tried something new it will always have a unique quality to it that fans of that flavor will stand behind forever. Hell, I went in knowing it wasn't going to be my Superman, but maybe this new version can be just as special. I was overall with it until the tornado, and it continued to lose me until the neck snap and subsequent skip from consequence. I was done following.

SR was kinda similar in a few ways, but subverted a lot of them to the point of tainting them. In that way, it has the same "dark" problem that MoS has. But Returns plays enough things just safe enough to be forgettable (for most). I wasn't crazy about SR, either, tbh.

You know, if there's anything the Internet has taught me, it's that trying to convince others that the movies they love/hate are actually terrible/great always works!

LOL! That might usually be futile, yes, but I think these discussions can (not always, but *can*) help one understand what exactly it was they did/didn't like and (perhaps) how to better understand why. And speaking of understanding, discussion can also make one see something they didn't see before, potentially changing their experience with it. Not saying it isn't rare, but that it *can* happen.

Holy sh!t why did Dan Slott go ham af on Twitter for like an hour or something about Man of Steel for like no reason today lmao ?

Like, don't get me wrong, I got no kinda love for those movies at all for a bunch of reason, and I'm not making fun of Slott, but.....like, why tho, Dan lol ?

And dude, he took it to the mats too, man. He was out here replying an sh!t, throwin snark, and really gettin into it. And whole time I'm like "damn, Dan baby, what is you doin" hahaha

Ok, I need to go see this..

I guess one of the magics of cinema is how same films influence every person differently. I had a completely opposite experience, prior to BvS I was depressed probably for almost a year, just trying to go through and survive each day, nothing to look forward to and nothing to keep my myself busy with that I genuenly would've enjoyed. One scene in BvS really hit me to the core and made me look at my own situation differently and actually try do something about it. I'm talking about this scene:



The line "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking". Superman had such an innocent and naive view of the world that he couldn't even think about a possibility that someone will try to bomb a peaceful meeting to discuss consequences of his actions. He began to have existential crysis. Does it mean anything to be Superman if atrocities like that are happening? Is being good a fantasy? That was something I could really relate to. Why bother trying if world will fail you with how it actually is.

Then Pa Kent dialogue happened. That was the moment that taught me that the world is bad, BUT there is also good. Even if you have a small amount of it in your life, it is still worth living for. How Lois said on the balcony scene "That farmer's dream is all some people have, it's all that gives them hope". You can translate that both for the movie and for our real world. For some people Superman is all the good they have in their lives and if he gives up, people will lose hope. Lex Luthor tried so hard to create holes in a holy, but in the end Superman saves Lex from his own monstrocity. So I gathered for myself that even if Superman can have tough times like I did and still overcome it, then so can I.

The dialogue with Martha also influenced me in a sense that I found support in her words to my own worldview. She is right that Superman doesn't owe this world a thing and never did. That makes his heroism even more precious, because if he choses to be hero because he wants to, instead of feeling obligated to do so, makes him a genuine hero.

Listen, I realize that realistic and grounded take is not for everyone. I have nothing against an escapism. What I am against is a notion that escapism is the only "correct" way to do superheroes. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Well, I will say this (something else I've said a few times in different ways): if those movies had to exist at all, I'm glad they helped you that much. I may always think there was a happy medium where you could have gotten what you needed and not left me with a pain in my gut and a fear for the character's future, but regardless of all of that, I'm happy that you had that inspiration. I very much wish that inspiration for everyone - because that's my feeling, too.

What I hope we see in the future is a mix of the two: gravitas and escapism/power fantasy. I enjoy both, depending on the movie, and for Superman I like a solid mixture of the two. Hopefully, when the next version finally comes along, they have a team who can work well in both and make them blend nicely.

[Superlad93]

Four days ago he said something positive about the Donner movies and got replies telling him they were cheesy and how much better the Snyder movies were. Dan hit his limit after getting replies like that for days.

Damn internet. You out here makin Dan Slott look crazy hahaha

In that context it makes a lot more, and sounds waaaaay less like Slott randomly going "f##k it".

[Vordan]

Holy sh!t why did Dan Slott go ham af on Twitter for like an hour or something about Man of Steel for like no reason today lmao ?

Like, don't get me wrong, I got no kinda love for those movies at all for a bunch of reason, and I'm not making fun of Slott, but.....like, why tho, Dan lol ?

And dude, he took it to the mats too, man. He was out here replying an sh!t, throwin snark, and really gettin into it. And whole time I'm like "damn, Dan baby, what is you doin" hahaha

He’s never liked MOS and that the fanbase keeps harassing him and telling him Supes should kill finally got to him lol.

[manwhohaseverything]

He’s never liked MOS and that the fanbase keeps harassing him and telling him Supes should kill finally got to him lol.

Actually, he was the one who brought up the killing thing. Dceu fans started calling donner superman cheesy and made fun of precrisis clumsy clark act portrayed by Christopher reeve.

[Superlad93]

He’s never liked MOS and that the fanbase keeps harassing him and telling him Supes should kill finally got to him lol.

Sometimes you just wanna fight a dragon just to see if you can, I guess hahaha

[Superbat]

Snyder fans are persistent, to put it nicely.

Go look at the Warner Bros twitter accounts and you'll find them replying to every tweet asking for the Snyder cut.

A Bruce Springsteen documentary. Release the Snyder cut.
Doctor Sleep is coming out soon. Release the Snyder cut.
Happy birthday to Viggo Mortensen. Release the Snyder cut.

Then there's this.



Instead of telling his critics that we're living in a dream world, he should tell his fans to conduct themselves better.

[manwhohaseverything]

Snyder fans are persistent, to put it nicely.

Go look at the Warner Bros twitter accounts and you'll find them replying to every tweet asking for the Snyder cut.

A Bruce Springsteen documentary. Release the Snyder cut.
Doctor Sleep is coming out soon. Release the Snyder cut.
Happy birthday to Viggo Mortensen. Release the Snyder cut.

Then there's this.



Instead of telling his critics that we're living in a dream world, he should tell his fans to conduct themselves better.

Are they only doing that with wb account?

[marhawkman]

Yeah! I saw it. I don't agree. He makes superman into the elric brothers in characterisation. When in fact superman is more like gohan.gohan has killed

Yeah this is what Superman wants to do:
Livewire_New_Costume.jpg
But... if he has to do, he will.

[Superbat]

Are they only doing that with wb account?

The WB accounts are the main targets but it also happens with the DC Comics account, and they harass Geoff Johns every time he tweets.

[manwhohaseverything]

The WB accounts are the main targets but it also happens with the DC Comics account, and they harass Geoff Johns every time he tweets.

Yeah!well that sucks. I can understand their frustration. I would have been more on their side if it was just wb account. Its not like Geoff johns had any control over what happened. Wb be fired snyder. Left John's and whedon with rest of it.you can't expect John's or whedon to have the same vision for superman that snyder had. Johns only knows one superman and that's donner superman. He can't write any other version. Dccomics isn't even connected to movies.

[The World]

IIRC Slott got into it some time ago about the Joker movie. He trashed it and got swarmed by people that liked it, guy was probably looking for an easy target to soothe his ego. Can't imagine why else the guy would bring up MOS out of the blue 5-6 years later.

[Powerboy]

I guess one of the magics of cinema is how same films influence every person differently. I had a completely opposite experience, prior to BvS I was depressed probably for almost a year, just trying to go through and survive each day, nothing to look forward to and nothing to keep my myself busy with that I genuenly would've enjoyed. One scene in BvS really hit me to the core and made me look at my own situation differently and actually try do something about it. I'm talking about this scene:



The line "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking". Superman had such an innocent and naive view of the world that he couldn't even think about a possibility that someone will try to bomb a peaceful meeting to discuss consequences of his actions. He began to have existential crysis. Does it mean anything to be Superman if atrocities like that are happening? Is being good a fantasy? That was something I could really relate to. Why bother trying if world will fail you with how it actually is.

Then Pa Kent dialogue happened. That was the moment that taught me that the world is bad, BUT there is also good. Even if you have a small amount of it in your life, it is still worth living for. How Lois said on the balcony scene "That farmer's dream is all some people have, it's all that gives them hope". You can translate that both for the movie and for our real world. For some people Superman is all the good they have in their lives and if he gives up, people will lose hope. Lex Luthor tried so hard to create holes in a holy, but in the end Superman saves Lex from his own monstrocity. So I gathered for myself that even if Superman can have tough times like I did and still overcome it, then so can I.

The dialogue with Martha also influenced me in a sense that I found support in her words to my own worldview. She is right that Superman doesn't owe this world a thing and never did. That makes his heroism even more precious, because if he choses to be hero because he wants to, instead of feeling obligated to do so, makes him a genuine hero.

Listen, I realize that realistic and grounded take is not for everyone. I have nothing against an escapism. What I am against is a notion that escapism is the only "correct" way to do superheroes. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

One scene that really worked for me was the one where Superman is about to leave Lois to go confront Batman, realizing he may have to kill him to save his mother. I can't remember the exact line but the look on his face is: nobody can stay good or innocent in this filthy world.

It was very much like the scene where he killed Zod. I've told this before but there was a guy who just got back from Iraq and he really did not want to go see a movie he thought would be about a guy who uses never killing as his standard of good. Even when Superman had his arms around Zod's neck, he was waiting for the deus ex machina, the magic escape hatch that would prevent Superman from ever having to deal with cold harsh reality as real soldiers do. Then, Superman actually had to kill him, he had to deal with the same cruel realities that real people have to deal with, no escape hatch or reset button. Right there, at the end of the3 movie, he found it a catharsis and actually was glad he saw the movie and liked this version because of those facts. He was in no mood for a story about a hero who always finds a loophole and who defines a hero as never killing.

Mind you, I say that as someone whose favorite live action Superman is the George Reeves version but I also found the Henry Cavill version the most inspiring because of the very fact that he's striving for the ideals in a far more realistic world where it's not easy. I don't want that as the majority of Superman stories but it was inspiring.

[manwhohaseverything]

One scene that really worked for me was the one where Superman is about to leave Lois to go confront Batman, realizing he may have to kill him to save his mother. I can't remember the exact line but the look on his face is: nobody can stay good or innocent in this filthy world.

It was very much like the scene where he killed Zod. I've told this before but there was a guy who just got back from Iraq and he really did not want to go see a movie he thought would be about a guy who uses never killing as his standard of good. Even when Superman had his arms around Zod's neck, he was waiting for the deus ex machina, the magic escape hatch that would prevent Superman from ever having to deal with cold harsh reality as real soldiers do. Then, Superman actually had to kill him, he had to deal with the same cruel realities that real people have to deal with, no escape hatch or reset button. Right there, at the end of the3 movie, he found it a catharsis and actually was glad he saw the movie and liked this version because of those facts. He was in no mood for a story about a hero who always finds a loophole and who defines a hero as never killing.

Mind you, I say that as someone whose favorite live action Superman is the George Reeves version but I also found the Henry Cavill version the most inspiring because of the very fact that he's striving for the ideals in a far more realistic world where it's not easy. I don't want that as the majority of Superman stories but it was inspiring.

This is what i was talking about with @JAK pages ago. Snyder's superman is put in a position like that of a cop or a soldier. Never ending battle is not limited to doctors or firefighters. These guys are human too.