Zack Snyder on his critics: "You're living in an f-ing dreamworld!"

[Agent Z]

The Jesus connection is a cheap way to add depth, even if it flies in the face of the character. That’s why it’s stuck around, and it’s never really helped the character. To add on to what JAK said, remember when Clark goes to ask the priest for advice in MOS, with a hilariously unsubtle shot of Jesus in the Garden of Gethseme? If the intention was to subvert the Jesus imagery, having Clark reject the priest’s advice would’ve been a good example of deconstruction. However that’s not what happens, the priest is portrayed positively as giving good advice, and Superman decides to surrender himself to the authorities without resisting just like Jesus. That’s not subverting the Jesus analogy that’s playing it painfully straight.

If it were playing the Jesus imagery straight, Clark wouldn't have needed to go to the priest for advice in the first place. In fact, him not seeking advice from anyone would make him more of a Jesus figure since Christ is portrayed as being wiser than everyone else which Clark is not.

[Vordan]

If it were playing the Jesus imagery straight, Clark wouldn't have needed to go to the priest for advice in the first place. In fact, him not seeking advice from anyone would make him more of a Jesus figure since Christ is portrayed as being wiser than everyone else which Clark is not.

Are you familiar with the context of the Garden imagery? Jesus in the Garden is right before he’s arrested by the authorities. He prays to God asking for strength and advice, and begs that if it’s possible, to not have to die. Ultimately he chooses to surrender himself to the authorities without violence, even though he demonstrates its well within his power to not comply if he doesn’t want to by healing the ear of one of the temple guards. Ultimately Jesus is turned over to the Romans and crucified.

Clark is in a similar position. Zod demands he surrenders himself and Clark is scared and unsure of himself. He goes to church to get advice and ultimately chooses to surrender himself to the human authorities, based in part on the advice of the priest. He demonstrates that he doesn’t have to comply with humans if he doesn’t want to by breaking the handcuffs effortlessly. Ultimately the human authorities turn him over to Zod who plans to commit genocide on humanity. Like I said none of this is very subtle if you get what Snyder is alluding to, and none of it is subverting the Jesus analogy.

[manwhohaseverything]

Are you familiar with the context of the Garden imagery? Jesus in the Garden is right before he’s arrested by the authorities. He prays to God asking for strength and advice, and begs that if it’s possible, to not have to die. Ultimately he chooses to surrender himself to the authorities without violence, even though he demonstrates its well within his power to not comply if he doesn’t want to by healing the ear of one of the temple guards. Ultimately Jesus is turned over to the Romans and crucified.

Clark is in a similar position. Zod demands he surrenders himself and Clark is scared and unsure of himself. He goes to church to get advice and ultimately chooses to surrender himself to the human authorities, based in part on the advice of the priest. He demonstrates that he doesn’t have to comply with humans if he doesn’t want to by breaking the handcuffs effortlessly. Ultimately the human authorities turn him over to Zod who plans to commit genocide on humanity. Like I said none of this is very subtle if you get what Snyder is alluding to, and none of it is subverting the Jesus analogy.

I know it very well. But, that is like buddha doing his meditation. Jesus gains the strength to do the things he does by strengthening himself with God's grace,That's the implication.Neither buddha nor jesus needed the kind of validation from outside. It came from within them. clark on the otherhand sought it to remove his confusion both in bvs and man of steel. Think about it why does he cling to lois. Because lois believes in him. Clark's seek help from people as confused, scared as he is. Not an omnipotent and omniscient being. There is a difference.The priest's confusion and fear was very much precisely depicted. What does he first say to clark? He doesn't give him anything meaningful at first. He instead asks a question "what does your gut tells you?". That tells you he lacks the understanding a god would. And his vagueness tells you his unsurity. It isn't subtle because it is meant to portray the difference. It is meant to make you uncomfortable. To make you realise how wrong it is. If people don't get it. Then that's fine.

[DochaDocha]

Maybe we're overthinking the actual details instead of focusing on the bigger picture: Jesus = Messiah, Superman = Messiah. That's what Snyder wanted us to see.

[Vordan]

Maybe we're overthinking the actual details instead of focusing on the bigger picture: Jesus = Messiah, Superman = Messiah. That's what Snyder wanted us to see.

Yep. “You can save them Kal. You can save all of them”.

[SiegePerilous02]

Maybe we're overthinking the actual details instead of focusing on the bigger picture: Jesus = Messiah, Superman = Messiah. That's what Snyder wanted us to see.

Hence why the writing is pretty confused. Elevating him to messiah status while wanting to make him more relatable seems contradictory. As does saying "people are just projecting Jesus expectations onto him" one minute, and then being all "he totally his the Messiah and the center of everything " the next. It cannot make up its mind.

Also Superman is more a Sci-Fi amalgamation of Moses and Hercules, so bringing Jesus into the mix is questionable to begin with.

[DochaDocha]

Hence why the writing is pretty confused. Elevating him to messiah status while wanting to make him more relatable seems contradictory. As does saying "people are just projecting Jesus expectations onto him" one minute, and then being all "he totally his the Messiah and the center of everything " the next. It cannot make up its mind.

Also Superman is more a Sci-Fi amalgamation of Moses and Hercules, so bringing Jesus into the mix is questionable to begin with.

To be fair, Snyder wasn't the first, and sadly probably won't be the last. He was just doubling down on this pop culture take on Superman.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yep. “You can save them Kal. You can save all of them”.

Did he save all of them? He didn't. Reality vs expectations.he had to stop an extinction at the cost of genocide and his moral integrity.

[JAK]

Maybe we're overthinking the actual details instead of focusing on the bigger picture: Jesus = Messiah, Superman = Messiah. That's what Snyder wanted us to see.

That's exactly right. Just because every detail wasn't 1-for-1 with exactly Jesus doesn't mean it's subverting it. The imagery was there, and it was played into, not juxtaposed.

[stargazer01]

I like the Superman/Jesus metaphors but only through imagery not in actual meaning. Jesus saves your soul, Superman saves your bvtt.

Superman and Jesus were sent by their "heavenly" father to save the human race. Superman also sacrificed his life and died to save us from evil. The imagery is there even if you don't like it. Superman can get laid, though..

[manwhohaseverything]

That's exactly right. Just because every detail wasn't 1-for-1 with exactly Jesus doesn't mean it's subverting it. The imagery was there, and it was played into, not juxtaposed.

You say that. When i give you counters you set it aside.Ok So, i go with your argument and accept it. Then, what will it mean. It would mean that, jesus was just a confused individual from nazareth with extraordinary powers trying to help people . This would be what snyder showcased through clark in reverse , if i accept your proposition. Does this hold up to scrutiny? Was jesus just a confused individual from nazareth trying to help in the bible? You tell me, because i am not a Christian.

[JAK]

You say that. When i give you counters you set it aside.Ok So, i go with your argument and accept it. Then, what will it mean. It would mean that, jesus was just a confused individual from nazareth with extraordinary powers trying to help people . This would be what snyder showcased through clark in reverse , if i accept your proposition. Does this hold up to scrutiny? Was jesus just a confused individual from nazareth trying to help in the bible? You tell me, because i am not a Christian.

Those actually weren't counters to what I meant, you just said that it's not exactly what happened to Jesus to suggest it doesn't count. But the imagery absolutely does count, and the allegory is clear. It's not that he has to be exactly Jesus of Nazareth, he doesn't (even though Superman died when he was 33 and BvS came out around Easter, that's kinda "on the nose" if you ask me). But it's not all or nothing. The allegory is a general idea, not a specific set of events. Being a Christian or not doesn't matter because everyone knows the gist of what that symbolism looks like.

Much like Superman Returns: Superman falls to Earth in a position similar to what we're often shown of Jesus on the cross (and like Henry leaving Zod's ship to save Lois in MoS). Jesus didn't lift a giant island of Kryptonite, but the imagery is blatantly obvious and understood all the same. It's the same thing here. Superman = messiah/savior, and using Jesus-like imagery is the fastest way to convey that to an audience today.

[DochaDocha]

But you didn't give counters. You just said that it's not exactly what happened to Jesus to suggest it doesn't count. But the imagery absolutely does count, and the allegory is clear. It's not that he has to be exactly Jesus of Nazareth, he doesn't (even though Superman died when he was 33 and BvS came out around Easter, that's kinda "on the nose" if you ask me). But it's not all or nothing. The allegory is a general idea, not a specific set of events. Being a Christian or not doesn't matter because everyone knows the gist of what that symbolism looks like.

Much like Superman Returns: Superman falls to Earth in a position similar to what we're often shown of Jesus on the cross (and like Henry leaving Zod's ship to save Lois in MoS). Jesus didn't lift a giant island of Kryptonite, but the imagery is blatantly obvious and understood all the same. It's the same thing here. Superman = messiah/savior, and using Jesus-like imagery is the fastest way to convey that to an audience today.

Minor correction: MoS came out in June, well after Easter.

Otherwise, I agree. It uses people's common knowledge of Jesus, and with the imagery, symbolism, and other subtle references (e.g. the age of 33) mixed in your brain makes the parallels between Jesus and Superman without the dialogue's need to say explicitly Superman is a messianic character.

[Powerboy]

To be fair, Snyder wasn't the first, and sadly probably won't be the last. He was just doubling down on this pop culture take on Superman.

As far as I know, Donner was the first. He mentioned in a commentary that he even got death threats over it. Superman Returns just pushed it further and then Snyder's version. It started becoming a part of popular culture with Superman the Movie.

[stargazer01]

Jor-El sent his only son to Earth.. God gave his only son to save us sinners..

I don't see what's so bad about it, it elevates Superman as a bigger myth. The problem is how he acts and behaves. He was pretty much a very distant Jesus figure in BvS and moping around the whole time. That was the problem, Superman wasn't friendly and approachable, he was too concerned with his own problems.