Fantastic Four #8 (SPOILERS)

[Crimz]

A discussion thread of the latest issue.




Doom has captured the FF and has each of them in a custom made prison

Reed is being stretched to his limit while simultaneously frozen so that any movement will kill him.
Johnny is imprisoned in breathable liquid
Sue is being bombarded by sonic waves that target the part of her brain that produces force-fields, while scanners are there to detect if she turns invisible.
Ben is tied to chained so that if he struggles and breaks free the others will instantly die.

Doom in his arrogance shows Reed his calculations for the Galactus harvest in order to "ease Reed's mind". He broadcasts to not only all the world again, but the entire galaxy. To show both his triumph over Galactus and the execution of the Fantastic Four.
Meanwhile, there is a cut the Franklin having a nightmare about the billions of people he made dying to the Griever. When he wakes he decides to go off for a walk in the middle of the night against Alicia's wishes.

The rest of the family go off in search of Franklin while he comes upon a girl. Who turns out to be Wendy back from the Byrne run. Her "friends" told him where he was and she brings Franklin to her house to watch Doom's broadcast.

Doom gives Reed last words and as you probably guessed, Reed says that Doom's calculations are off. Galactus will escape, destroying Latveria and throwing earth off it's orbit into oblivion. Doom does not take this well and goes into a tirade while Sue turns the execution switch invisible and then Doom's armor. Revealing a naked and exposed Doom to the galaxy.

The issue ends with Doom saying "you will pay for this".

[Crimz]

I actually enjoyed this issue.

It was a bit predictable in places, such as Doom's miscalculation and Victorious obviously going to get with Johnny. Doom's return to villainy is disappointing, but not surprising and yet again his hubris will lead to his downfall.

I enjoyed the call back to Wendy from back in the Byrne run. I always wondered what happened to her. I'm also interested in Doom's reaction to being exposed to the galaxy.

I also really liked the art.

[Hypestyle]

I actually enjoyed this issue.

It was a bit predictable in places, such as Doom's miscalculation and Victorious obviously going to get with Johnny. Doom's return to villainy is disappointing, but not surprising and yet again his hubris will lead to his downfall.

I enjoyed the call back to Wendy from back in the Byrne run. I always wondered what happened to her. I'm also interested in Doom's reaction to being exposed to the galaxy.

I also really liked the art.

uh. so what happened here? On the cover, Johnny is being attacked rather viciously.

[Crimz]

uh. so what happened here? On the cover, Johnny is being attacked rather viciously.

That never happened. The cover does not represent what's in the comic.

[SuperiorIronman]

It's not trash, but dear lord this issue isn't good either.

Victor's plan is still dumb and that he just broadcasts this victory to the world is all sorts of dumb because everyone watching TV sees it. He really thought this was a good idea? Sure he brought down Galactus with a comparable power source but that not only puts a target on Latveria by everyone on Earth but also by the Galactic populace who sees this..., also in English so what the Hell?

I'm also trying to wrap my brain around why Victor held the four the way he did because there are glaringly obvious ways of holding them if not outright killing them. And if it was for the theatricality, he can just execute robots since Doom commonly uses robotic replacements.

D+, it's better written but it's still not good.

[U.N. Owen]

For a book called "fantastic," this felt boring. It plays through the same story beats of the usual "Doom gets object/person of great power, uses it, and has the situation blow up in his face" plot that has been going on since he first stole the Silver Surfboard or even the Beyonder's powers. Doom says nothing can go wrong. Reed points out what can go wrong. I'm not against reusing plot points, especially since you can play the plot in many different ways, but I'm against the notion of this shameless rehashing of old plots.

I don't give a crap about Franklin's side story. I am compelled to like Franklin's plight, but at the same time, it feels hollow. I know billions of stars suddenly flickering out is heinous, but it doesn't have the emotion it should have. Instead of billions of people dying, why not focus on a specific person or group of people, perhaps the first ones Franklin created that weren't copies out of the old multiverse? We might not know these characters, but you could easily interpret the scene as a parent losing a child. It's way more effective that way. It's more relatable than just seeing people die at the hands of Griever.

[Crimz]

I find it funny that Doom underestimated Sue of all people. He underestimated her invisibility powers before much to his downfall.
Also, this would have been the perfect opportunity to do something new with her invisibility powers. Like using light or something.

Not feeling a Victorious/Johnny relationship. But I'm happy that she isn't the one to save them, that would have been another predictable plot point.

Did the change the colorist? I like it much better than previous issues.

[Prof. Warren]

Great issue. The mix of artists gelled well, so switching from one to the other wasn't jarring. Hopefully Kuder can do a full issue again soon, though.

Slott is writing a very classic-feeling FF. The situation here is iconic - the FF at the mercy of Doom as he gloats to the world. The pleasure is in knowing that Doom has, once again over-played his hand and over-estimated his own intelligence. All that's left is for Reed and the others to lower the boom. Loved the last page. Crazy that Sue has never used her invisibility in this way before (not to my recollection, at least).

Victor's plan is still dumb and that he just broadcasts this victory to the world is all sorts of dumb because everyone watching TV sees it. He really thought this was a good idea?

Have you met Doom before? Of course he thinks it was a good idea. Doom isn't one to hide his light under a bushel as it were. He thinks his plan is genius and is eager to broadcast it to the world. Doom's ego is his Achilles Heel.

Sure he brought down Galactus with a comparable power source but that not only puts a target on Latveria by everyone on Earth but also by the Galactic populace who sees this..., also in English so what the Hell?

Again, have you met Doom before? Doom's arrogance precludes any worry about anyone coming to his doorstep to challenge him. In fact, he welcomes it.

I'm also trying to wrap my brain around why Victor held the four the way he did because there are glaringly obvious ways of holding them if not outright killing them. And if it was for the theatricality, he can just execute robots since Doom commonly uses robotic replacements.

I'll have to quote Austin Powers here: "Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't."

Yes, there are "glaringly obvious ways" for Doom to hold the FF. In fact, he could just kill them outright and be done with it. But that's not Doom's way. And it's not the way an FF adventure should go. If Doom ever did the "glaringly obvious" thing, all this would have ended fifty some odd years ago.

[Abe]

Well... those weren't Doom's ways since quite a bunch of years, and they are probably so classic that one could find them overused. I expect something different from my FF book. And I still don't get what happened to Galactus since the first issue. No cosmic vibe for me - neither with the Griever. (Slott can do better)

But I liked most of the art.

The real highlight was Wendy : suddenly it took me back 30 years ago.

[Michael Watkins]

For a book called "fantastic," this felt boring. It plays through the same story beats of the usual "Doom gets object/person of great power, uses it, and has the situation blow up in his face" plot that has been going on since he first stole the Silver Surfboard or even the Beyonder's powers.

I am shocked. shocked.

[Keyotheseasons]

This was by far my favorite part of the issue. I love that Sue and the rest of the F4's plan up until now was to hit Doom where it hurts- his ego.

[Michael Watkins]

doom looks like an unfunny Deadpool.

[SuperiorIronman]

Great issue. The mix of artists gelled well, so switching from one to the other wasn't jarring. Hopefully Kuder can do a full issue again soon, though.

Slott is writing a very classic-feeling FF. The situation here is iconic - the FF at the mercy of Doom as he gloats to the world. The pleasure is in knowing that Doom has, once again over-played his hand and over-estimated his own intelligence. All that's left is for Reed and the others to lower the boom. Loved the last page. Crazy that Sue has never used her invisibility in this way before (not to my recollection, at least).



Have you met Doom before? Of course he thinks it was a good idea. Doom isn't one to hide his light under a bushel as it were. He thinks his plan is genius and is eager to broadcast it to the world. Doom's ego is his Achilles Heel.



Again, have you met Doom before? Doom's arrogance precludes any worry about anyone coming to his doorstep to challenge him. In fact, he welcomes it.



I'll have to quote Austin Powers here: "Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't."

Yes, there are "glaringly obvious ways" for Doom to hold the FF. In fact, he could just kill them outright and be done with it. But that's not Doom's way. And it's not the way an FF adventure should go. If Doom ever did the "glaringly obvious" thing, all this would have ended fifty some odd years ago.

Except one problem with that statement, arrogance does not equate to stupidity.

Arrogance stems from superiority and in this case he has not only the knowledge of how the four operate, but is able to subdue them in such a manner that they are in his custody for a brief period of time. If his goal is to kill them anyways, simply not doing it when he has them at his mercy is foolish considering the dozens of times he has done this in the past. Arrogance stemming from superiority is the belief that he is in full control of the situation despite similar situations he has put them in over the years. He has made the critical error of putting his opponents in situations where they not only can fully take control of the situation as they have done in the past, and and even if they couldn't he has made this boisterous claim to the whole world. Doom has just made it clear to the populace that he is in position of a powersource far exceeding a regular WMD and is about to execute American citizens on live television. He has not only vastly under-equipped himself for this act in terms of his entrapment and usage of past-knowledge, but he has also painted a target on he and his people's back.

Doom is arrogant but that does stem from a position of Victor actually being in control of the situation. His downfall is underestimating his opponents and having encountered the FF for as long as he has, he should know better. It reeks of laziness when the writer is relying more on trope than actually expanding upon how Doom confronts them. I assure you, I get Doctor Doom, and I know lazy writing when I see it.

Just because something is iconic does not make it good. It's fine you like it, but I expect more out of a writer who is continually touted as the best choice for the Fantastic Four. If he wasn't going to bother than he shouldn't be doing the book or at the very least not with the players he is.

[Prof. Warren]

Except one problem with that statement, arrogance does not equate to stupidity.

Arrogance stems from superiority and in this case he has not only the knowledge of how the four operate, but is able to subdue them in such a manner that they are in his custody for a brief period of time. If his goal is to kill them anyways, simply not doing it when he has them at his mercy is foolish considering the dozens of times he has done this in the past. Arrogance stemming from superiority is the belief that he is in full control of the situation despite similar situations he has put them in over the years. He has made the critical error of putting his opponents in situations where they not only can fully take control of the situation as they have done in the past, and and even if they couldn't he has made this boisterous claim to the whole world. Doom has just made it clear to the populace that he is in position of a powersource far exceeding a regular WMD and is about to execute American citizens on live television. He has not only vastly under-equipped himself for this act in terms of his entrapment and usage of past-knowledge, but he has also painted a target on he and his people's back.

Doom is arrogant but that does stem from a position of Victor actually being in control of the situation. His downfall is underestimating his opponents and having encountered the FF for as long as he has, he should know better. It reeks of laziness when the writer is relying more on trope than actually expanding upon how Doom confronts them. I assure you, I get Doctor Doom, and I know lazy writing when I see it.

Just because something is iconic does not make it good. It's fine you like it, but I expect more out of a writer who is continually touted as the best choice for the Fantastic Four. If he wasn't going to bother than he shouldn't be doing the book or at the very least not with the players he is.

The problem lies with your perception, not Slott's writing.

You clearly don't know lazy writing and you don't know Doom's character. He has no problem painting a target on his own back.

This is someone who literally commanded an entire world not long ago. Do you think he is going to sweat anyone coming at him? Especially after he's just brought down Galactus for all to see? No, not for a second.

And his arrogance is always his blindspot, especially when it comes to dealing with Reed. He'd never kill Reed or the FF outright in any kind of, what he would perceive as, a cowardly way. He wants to gloat to Reed's face, he wants Reed to appreciate Doom's superiority to him. And that's what will always get him in the end.

[Michael Watkins]

Except one problem with that statement, arrogance does not equate to stupidity.

it does when Reed is involved. he's not superior to Reed. so his arrogance is unfounded (= stupid).