Fantastic Four #8 (SPOILERS)

[Doom Answers to No Master]

I wouldn't bet the rent on it

Bingo! Heck, Doom could be seen as early as the Endgame mid/post credit if they really wanted to....Doom will have a lot of roles I believe throughout the MCU...he may lock in his bitter rivalry with Richards in F4 probably but I can't imagine Kevin waiting until the F4 film for our first hint of Doom in any capacity....

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Bingo! Heck, Doom could be seen as early as the Endgame mid/post credit if they really wanted to....Doom will have a lot of roles I believe throughout the MCU...he may lock in his bitter rivalry with Richards in F4 probably but I can't imagine Kevin waiting until the F4 film for our first hint of Doom in any capacity....

I doubt they'll do Endgame post-credits just yet to set up Doom. You need to commit, and I think if Feige wants this to be a conclusion putting a tease for the next villain at the end would defeat that. end the film, and then later do the next saga and introduce Doom.

Having said that, yeah, you don't go the trouble of setting up a cinematic universe with earth/street/science/mystic/cosmic sides and not dodge the one guy who can effortlessly inhabit every single corner of that universe and still be a major threat, when you get the chance. Dr. Doom has never been done right in earlier movies because they didn't properly adapt his backstory and background because people back then were too afraid of "yellow spandex" i.e. making stuff accurate to comics and so they made Ra's Al Ghul a secret society guy and not a Lazarus Pits spa-dweller. Now in the age of the Talking Raccoon, all doors are open to us.

[Inversed]

She probably doesn't realize that Doom was the father of his own Franklin and Valeria in Secret Wars

That's something you always have to remember about how insecure and messed up Doom is, he saved all of reality and created a whole new universe where he was a God, and yet went out of his way to save the one F4 left in the multiverse without a Reed, all so he could have the one thing he could never achieve, his family.

The approach you give to Dan Slott’s method on the FF does ring true. I have been analysing the MU since Secret Wars, and none of it flows as a consistent narrative that is linked, so the approach Dan Slott takes in FF can be anything he feels like. The same goes for Aaron’s Avengers, the Events, like Standoff, CWII, SE, No Road Home, Monsters Inc, all of them are a jumbled mess, and don’t connect to each other, so why should the FF make any sense regarding Doom? I mean Galactus is free and harming in Doctor Strange right now, and locked in a mountain in FF. There is the current Aaron Avengers playing out, No Road Home and the soon to be War of Realms tumbling all over each other. I can’t follow it. I won’t.

I would argue at the very least Jason Aaron, Donny Cates, and Gerry Duggan's books all have a good connective through line within each other. Everything else varies, some like Ewing, Zub, Waid, Coates, will try to connect to everything else that's going on, while others just stick with their own books for the most part. And then Slott in this and Iron Man is just doing what he wants.

[Iron Maiden]

That's something you always have to remember about how insecure and messed up Doom is, he saved all of reality and created a whole new universe where he was a God, and yet went out of his way to save the one F4 left in the multiverse without a Reed, all so he could have the one thing he could never achieve, his family.

I don't think it was shown that Doom had much choice in the universes that were left. Everything accelerated at a greater pace at the end of the cycle of incursions. But I can agree that is one facet of Doom that rings true....he still feels the damages of the loss of family from his childhood. He's resentful, angry.... all sorts of emotions are churning around under the surface due to that.

[Snoop Dogg]

The all-new 2019 concept of stories being published at the same time taking place before and after each other.

[Iron Maiden]

Bingo! Heck, Doom could be seen as early as the Endgame mid/post credit if they really wanted to....Doom will have a lot of roles I believe throughout the MCU...he may lock in his bitter rivalry with Richards in F4 probably but I can't imagine Kevin waiting until the F4 film for our first hint of Doom in any capacity....

I always thought it would be cool to adapt Byrne's Terror in a Tiny Town to account for the Fantastic Four and Doom's whereabouts since the launch of the MCU films done by Marvel Studios. Maybe things go haywire and they stay trapped there for a while. Phillip Masters could have double-crossed them all, wanting Alicia to stay there, gifted with sight and married to Ben.

Another way to explain the FF not being around is if they were trapped in the Negative Zone by Annihilus. They destroy the portal so he can't break though....but neither can they go back until someone finds Reed's notes and comes to rescue them.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I always thought it would be cool to adapt Byrne's Terror in a Tiny Town to account for the Fantastic Four and Doom's whereabouts since the launch of the MCU films done by Marvel Studios. Maybe things go haywire and they stay trapped there for a while. Phillip Masters could have double-crossed them all, wanting Alicia to stay there, gifted with sight and married to Ben.

Another way to explain the FF not being around is if they were trapped in the Negative Zone by Annihilus. They destroy the portal so he can't break though....but neither can they go back until someone finds Reed's notes and comes to rescue them.

You can simply use the Council of Reeds and AU to bring the four in. It's not too hard. If you can insert Captain Marvel by sandwiching a movie between the cliffhanger of a two-part story, you can do anything. Look how they shoehorned Spider-Man into the universe and in such short notice. As for Latveria, they have Sokovia right. In the wake of the chaos and destruction, a young rebel and revolutionary comes and takes over the entire territory and renames it Latveria the name of the country before the current regime, and then predictable makes himself dictator. I mean this stuff writes itself.

[Snoop Dogg]

They could just do the origin in the present.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

They could just do the origin in the present.

After the two earlier movies royally f--ked up the origin, I doubt that. The FF origin can be done in a throwaway fashion. FF#1 treated it perfunctorily. After the space-flight cosmic radiation and crash, they all place hands on top, and Thing says sarcastically, "I guess we have to save the world and mankind right". The origin of the four was never very essential or important to them. The important thing about the four is the adventures, the villains, the crazy settings, and the action. It's all about that moment in 'This Man this Monster'..."The highway to eternity--the junction to everywhere". That's what counts. And it can be done.

Take X-Men 1. That movie doesn't give us the origin of the mutants, the origin of Wolverine, the origin of the X-Men. The later films fleshed that out and the only time it worked was First Class since that gave a cool origin story of Magneto, X-Men and their entire rivalry and so on, whereas the Wolverine origin movie was a terrible movie.

[BAS]

And how many movies did Hannibal Lector have? TV shows, too. And he has fewer redeeming traits than Doom IMO And I still think when Waid wrote Unthinkable, he was influenced by the killer on the loose in Silence of the Lambs.

Hannibal Lecktor wasn't the villain in Silence of the Lambs, nor was he in Manhunter (the movie with Brian Cox as Lecktor) that preceded Lambs. He was just a supporting cast member -- villain though he was.

You could go a couple directions with introducing Dr. Doom -- but having him start as the armored dictator of Latveria isn't the way. There has to be some buildup of the threat he offers - at least in my mind.

[Prof. Warren]

I wouldn't bet the rent on it

I would.

There'll probably be a name drop ahead of time, either for Doom himself or for Latveria - as when Stephen Strange's name came up in Winter Solider prior to his solo movie.

But we won't see Doom full on until he's in the FF.

[Iron Maiden]

Hannibal Lecktor wasn't the villain in Silence of the Lambs, nor was he in Manhunter (the movie with Brian Cox as Lecktor) that preceded Lambs. He was just a supporting cast member -- villain though he was.

You could go a couple directions with introducing Dr. Doom -- but having him start as the armored dictator of Latveria isn't the way. There has to be some buildup of the threat he offers - at least in my mind.

I think you could start him out that way only unseen. I've always thought the way to go with Doom is the sort of like the way it was done with the mysterious Keyser Sose in Usual Suspects. Have someone tell a terrifying story of his origin and keep Doom on the down low ...pulling strings at the center of some grand scheme where the operatives don't even know they are working for Doom.

As for Lector, he was the one common element in all those movies. I'm betting people remember him more than Buffalo Bill or Mason Verger or Francis Dollarhyde, aka Tooth Fairy.

[BAS]

I think you could start him out that way only unseen. I've always thought the way to go with Doom is the sort of like the way it was done with the mysterious Keyser Sose in Usual Suspects. Have someone tell a terrifying story of his origin and keep Doom on the down low ...pulling strings at the center of some grand scheme where the operatives don't even know they are working for Doom.

As for Lector, he was the one common element in all those movies. I'm betting people remember him more than Buffalo Bill or Mason Verger or Francis Dollarhyde, aka Tooth Fairy.

Oh there's no doubt that Lecktor is the key figure that gets pulled from each of those films... but he wasn't introduced as THE villain, and the story was about the FBI agents investigating a different serial killer.

It's a similar thing with Darth Vader -- From the first Star Wars, he was the breakout character, but he wasn't anything but the villain to the story of Luke Skywalker. It was only the 2nd and 3rd films that fleshed out his character.

None of those films featured the villain as the 'star' of the film. Your choice of Keyser Sose from The Usual Suspects is a real good example where the villain is the focus of the film, yet you really don't know it until the end.

[SuperiorIronman]

Doctor Doom is far scarier and cunning than given credit for. He builds machines which by all accounts believe they are human and serve Doom. They are every bit as real as you and I but are disposable. That's freighting as it pertains to rights of the sentient, but even scarier is that with the right blend, you nor they even know who they serve until they have to act. Doom can go anywhere thanks to diplomatic immunity, but he's also a technological super power in of himself and a walking WMD. Even if he didn't just fly or teleport in, there is nothing you can do about his presence. Even worse is that he's so powerful that he is a match for the mightiest of mortals and even gods.
Doom is such a powerful entity that he runs a whole country who has no idea how to function without him. He has for all his faults improved the lives of the people of Latveria to the point they can do nothing but swear loyalty to him. The reason being is that his plans do work and would work if not for the intervention of superheroes who take matters into their own hands on personal or ethical grounds.
Doom is the ultimate villain because for all accounts he is right, but the way he goes about that is ethically wrong. Beyond his hatred of Reed, this is a man who is consumed by his desire to do good and in the process the road to Hell is paved in good intentions. Except their is one major flaw in that; Victor not only does not care for his own soul, he's stronger than the Devil. He is a man who genuinely believes in what he does and that it's necessary. He has the fortitude to take the devil in a fist fight or pay for his crimes, because he's Doom. He's better than you because he's Doom and that's reason enough that he do what needs doing.

You don't introduce Doom as a mustache twirling villain or solely tie him to the FF. The Fantastic Four are not about him nor is it about his rivalry with Reed Richards. This rivalry with Reed is not all there is because Doom's intentions extend far beyond Latveria and even the world as Secret Wars 2015 has shown. He's not locked in the Silver Age, it informs his style, but this is an antagonist, not a villain. He's the four's opponent but not a monster nor an idiot and we shouldn't loose sight of that.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You don't introduce Doom as a mustache twirling villain or solely tie him to the FF. The Fantastic Four are not about him nor is it about his rivalry with Reed Richards. This rivalry with Reed is not all there is because Doom's intentions extend far beyond Latveria and even the world as Secret Wars 2015 has shown. He's not locked in the Silver Age, it informs his style, but this is an antagonist, not a villain. He's the four's opponent but not a monster nor an idiot and we shouldn't loose sight of that.

I will say that while the origin is not too important or essential for us to see/know in the case of the FF, Victor's origin story is essential to understanding him and it's at the center of every major story about him. Without Doom's origin from 616 he doesn't work as a character. Not in Ultimate Doom (which is the worst of all Dooms), not in Josh Trank's Doom, and not in the Tim Story movie. And Doctor Doom's origin is in my opinion, one of the greatest stories in all of Marvel and the best villain origin by a huge margin. It's never been done in live action, and to do real justice to it, you kind of need to do it with him.