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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post


    Discuss.
    When I read this, I got the mental image of Alicia actually strangling and rocking him back and forth like an old cartoon.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I thoink an early appearance by Doom after Secret Wars and Two-In-One was a necessity. The Reed/Vic reunion had to happen.

    As for detailed analysis, I have a thick pile of books which will be read outside on a warm sunny day later this week. But I have not been happy with Victor's reversion back to villain. Up until the crap pulled on the FF, I could buy it as a darker turn for good, but the crap going on here brings Doom back to Lee/Kirby personality.

    Doom and Owen SAVED a planet in Secret Wars. Reed had a ship with a small crew. Granted, Reed and Franklin expanded on that recreating a multiverse, but Doom was the guy who kept stuff going. And then after the Bendis and M2I1 issues, Doom had a new outlook which went away because God knows why.

    Doom, IMO, should be like Ozymandias in Watchmen. He'll do what needs to be done and he won't worry about keeping his hands clean. Although Reed also has a "Ends Justify the Means", Vic's grey is darker. At this point, I don't think Doom should be doing any mustache twirling villainy. I could buy his capturing a power source to power Latveria. But too many details so far neglect any personal growth. And as much as some may claim otherwise, Doom is probably considered a regular cast member of this book.

    I'll have more after a detailed read, but only because I do like hearing myself talk.
    But to be fair to Doom here, he honestly does think he's helping everyone.

    I mean, yeah, he's already played God, so him treating Galactus as a battery isn't really that out of character for him. He KNOWS that he is above godlike beings and he will do as he pleases.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    When I read this, I got the mental image of Alicia actually strangling and rocking him back and forth like an old cartoon.

  4. #64
    Spectacular Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Although I always love seeing Doom and the FF, this story really feels like a regression for Doom and the comic in general. Doom has been a God how many times now? He should honestly be beyond the petty "Look what I can do" while the heroes are chained up routine. Or at least his pettiness should be more mature, subtle and creative. These characters have just seen too much at this point. People that have repeatedly been Gods and universal creators makes these type of stories feel so hollow now. Does Doom even remember saving reality? Does he remember being a god and creating a universe with that Gauntlet in Hickman's run? How do you go back to being the same ol' "try and take over the world" bit after all these events? Wouldn't international politics, petty grudges and even Galactus be utterly boring to these people at this point? I'm probably delving too deep into this for just this single comic issue, but I feel like it would have been so much better to have these characters trying to come to terms with the fact they have done and been so far beyond this stuff and they don't know how to just be normal again, normal for them anyway. Like the end of the Lord of the Rings films, when the hobbits go home and everything and everyone is the same, except for themselves. But Doom and Reed haven't just been to war, they've been Gods. You're telling me there's no stories there? Just back to the same old asshole Doom vs Reed and the gang outsmarting him?

    Also, I cannot even express how tiresome it is at this point seeing Galactus used for making other characters look good.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I thoink an early appearance by Doom after Secret Wars and Two-In-One was a necessity. The Reed/Vic reunion had to happen.

    As for detailed analysis, I have a thick pile of books which will be read outside on a warm sunny day later this week. But I have not been happy with Victor's reversion back to villain. Up until the crap pulled on the FF, I could buy it as a darker turn for good, but the crap going on here brings Doom back to Lee/Kirby personality.

    Doom and Owen SAVED a planet in Secret Wars. Reed had a ship with a small crew. Granted, Reed and Franklin expanded on that recreating a multiverse, but Doom was the guy who kept stuff going. And then after the Bendis and M2I1 issues, Doom had a new outlook which went away because God knows why.

    Doom, IMO, should be like Ozymandias in Watchmen. He'll do what needs to be done and he won't worry about keeping his hands clean. Although Reed also has a "Ends Justify the Means", Vic's grey is darker. At this point, I don't think Doom should be doing any mustache twirling villainy. I could buy his capturing a power source to power Latveria. But too many details so far neglect any personal growth. And as much as some may claim otherwise, Doom is probably considered a regular cast member of this book.

    I'll have more after a detailed read, but only because I do like hearing myself talk.
    Very much in agreement here. Getting back to Reed, he's not without his flaws and is also blind to them at times. Would anyone want him to go back to the Lee/Kirby days when he would frequently harangue Ben, Johnny and Sue?

    Doom was the only one who figured out the Beyonders were behind it all after the incursion over Latveria. Sure, Reed came along later to kick of the recreation of the new multiverse but it was Doom keeping things together so that people survived the attempt by the Beyonders to destroy everything just as an experiment. And he saved Tony from being taken over by the demon that was going to possess him. It was never clear in Infamous Iron Man whether it was Mephisto again or the demon linked the Hood's origin. But this demon had plans to use Tony's wealth and influence for some major mischief I'm sure.

    The only thing Slott gets right about Doom is how he does admit he often thought of the Fantastic Four as family, which is true if you consider him Reed's darker half. And there's a little bit of Victor as a child in Valeria, whose origins are linked to him. He delivered her when Sue could have miscarried again. And I still think she is the reincarnation of Valeria von Doom, the daughter of Sue and Victor from an alternate timeline.

  6. #66
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    I suspect that, because this was a reboot after a long absence, they wanted to really show a new audience what made the FF work to begin with. So they deliberately went with a story that could almost have happened in the Silver Age. In order to do that, they had to fully hit the reset button on Doom.

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    A discussion thread of the latest issue.




    Doom has captured the FF and has each of them in a custom made prison

    Reed is being stretched to his limit while simultaneously frozen so that any movement will kill him.
    Johnny is imprisoned in breathable liquid
    Sue is being bombarded by sonic waves that target the part of her brain that produces force-fields, while scanners are there to detect if she turns invisible.
    Ben is tied to chained so that if he struggles and breaks free the others will instantly die.

    Doom in his arrogance shows Reed his calculations for the Galactus harvest in order to "ease Reed's mind". He broadcasts to not only all the world again, but the entire galaxy. To show both his triumph over Galactus and the execution of the Fantastic Four.
    Meanwhile, there is a cut the Franklin having a nightmare about the billions of people he made dying to the Griever. When he wakes he decides to go off for a walk in the middle of the night against Alicia's wishes.

    The rest of the family go off in search of Franklin while he comes upon a girl. Who turns out to be Wendy back from the Byrne run. Her "friends" told him where he was and she brings Franklin to her house to watch Doom's broadcast.

    Doom gives Reed last words and as you probably guessed, Reed says that Doom's calculations are off. Galactus will escape, destroying Latveria and throwing earth off it's orbit into oblivion. Doom does not take this well and goes into a tirade while Sue turns the execution switch invisible and then Doom's armor. Revealing a naked and exposed Doom to the galaxy.

    The issue ends with Doom saying "you will pay for this".
    I haven’t read it yet but this sounds like an infantile Victor von Doom trying to live past glories, but really, knowing he is wrong. Its kind of pathetic that Victor boxes himself into these corners, and his love, Sue, undoes him. It’s like that’s how he gets off.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    I have read this, and it is a Dan Slott FF plot from the 1990’s. It’s like revisiting bygone days of FF dramas with a lot of cobwebs attached.

    We are of course in a post-Secret Wars drama concerning God Doom without his power anymore. He is bitter, and he wants to demonstrate his earthly authority now that the FF have reappeared, while Victor was trying to be a super hero as in Infamous Iron Man. But the FF have reappeared and Victor has reverted to character. Poor Victor. It’s as though he has forgotten 600 issues of FF.

    And Reed Richards. For all his bravado trying to give Victor a moment of glory as Infamous Iron Man, he can’t help himself, but sets up a situation that embarrasses Victor, and undoes all Reeds intention of making Victor a super hero. Now we see the Victor who is faulty. This is the whole point of this arc. Victor has always been faulty, or at least faulty in Reeds view.

    That’s one issue that has been avoided by most writers, but it is Dan Slott that focuses in on this point, conspicuously. Reed Richards has been admitted as the better man than Victor von Doom, as seen in the last issue of Secret Wars 2015 HC. What needs to be revealed is that Victor von Doom finally realises he is a fool.
    Last edited by jackolover; 03-27-2019 at 11:16 PM.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I have read this, and it is a Dan Slott FF plot from the 1990ís. Itís like revisiting bygone days of FF dramas with a lot of cobwebs attached.

    We are of course in a post-Secret Wars drama concerning God Doom without his power anymore. He is bitter, and he wants to demonstrate his earthly authority now that the FF have reappeared, while Victor was trying to be a super hero as in Infamous Iron Man. But the FF have reappeared and Victor has reverted to character. Poor Victor. Itís as though he has forgotten 600 issues of FF.

    And Reed Richards. For all his bravado trying to give Victor a moment of glory as Infamous Iron Man, he canít help himself, but sets up a situation that embarrasses Victor, and undoes all Reeds intention of making Victor a super hero. Now we see the Victor who is faulty. This is the whole point of this arc. Victor has always been faulty, or at least faulty in Reeds view.

    Thatís one issue that has been avoided by most writers, but it is Dan Slott that focuses in on this point, conspicuously. Reed Richards has been admitted as the better man than Victor von Doom, as seen in the last issue of Secret Wars 2015 HC. What needs to be revealed is that Victor von Doom finally realises he is a fool.
    Many writers have tried to bring Doom down a peg and they always fail. Dan Slot is about to find out the hard way that the dignity of Doom as a character transcends his individual appearances. That the idea of Doom, the villain that makes evil look heroic, the absolute monster who will hold the world together through sheer force of will when all others surrenders, can't be humbled by a bad story arc and some implied full-frontal nudity. You'll see that when this book ends the Fantastic Four will be once again relegated to obscurity but Doctor Doom will retain his popularity in popular culture.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Many writers have tried to bring Doom down a peg and they always fail. Dan Slot is about to find out the hard way that the dignity of Doom as a character transcends his individual appearances. That the idea of Doom, the villain that makes evil look heroic, the absolute monster who will hold the world together through sheer force of will when all others surrenders, can't be humbled by a bad story arc and some implied full-frontal nudity. You'll see that when this book ends the Fantastic Four will be once again relegated to obscurity but Doctor Doom will retain his popularity in popular culture.
    I want to be generous and believe you're just doing a bit here, playing the part of a delusional lackey for the great Victor Von Doom.

    But I get the sad feeling you're actually serious.

    If that's the case, I have to inform you that the Fantastic Four are not going to be relegated to obscurity in popular culture. Within the next few years, when they make their debut in the MCU, they'll be bigger in the pop culture landscape than they ever have been. And the comics will be just as as aggressive in giving them the spotlight.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    If that's the case, I have to inform you that the Fantastic Four are not going to be relegated to obscurity in popular culture. Within the next few years, when they make their debut in the MCU, they'll be bigger in the pop culture landscape than they ever have been. And the comics will be just as as aggressive in giving them the spotlight.
    It remains to be seen if the MCU can retain any measure of social currency post-Endgame. I personally believe that much of the general audience will treat Endgame as a jumping off point and from then on any new MCU movies will suffer from diminishing returns at the box office. But I digress, even in such a diminished state there's a better chance of a Doctor Doom solo movie being made, there's already a script written for it. Alas, the same can't be said of the Fantastic Four.

  12. #72
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    So Victor plans to do what? His plan to get Galactus to be the ultimate power source relied on;

    -Victor not just using his weaponized big bangs (seen in the same arc).
    -Not the cosmic power he managed to acquire and imbue in Victorious.
    -He can siphon off power from Galactus and yet chooses not to go for the easier source of power like local stars. A Dyson Sphere or just pulling the energy like from Galactus isn't out of the question. There's nothing to suggest he couldn't have done it.

    Now sure he could try and rid the universe of Galactus, y'know except for the universal calamity part and that Galactus is going to largely ignore Earth anyways so drawing him here is dumb because you can ignore the threat by literally doing nothing.

    But say that Victor succeeds and that he's thought about all of this. He's made his plan and intends to use Galactus's power to give everyone on Earth cosmic power.
    -What does Victor plan to do with all the people he's going to put out of work? Sure everything else will be obsolete but unlimited power doesn't mean those people don't have bills to pay.
    -Who is going to build the infrastructure for every nation on Earth? I can't imagine holding the awesome power cosmic is cheap nor will Victor manage to build it all himself.
    -Who is going to export this? There is a lot of people who'd want this power and Doombots and Servoguards can be reprogrammed, destroyed, deactivated, go rogue, they aren't perfect systems.
    -How does Victor plan to defend himself from every nation on Earth and the galactic populace?
    -How does Victor plan to alter the battery market? Does he really think he can be the sole exporter of batteries to the whole world?
    - And how does he intend to make batteries compliant with every piece of hardware on Earth? Not all batteries are the same so how does he plan on creating batteries usable by everyone on Earth?
    -How does he intend to convert all of this into usable electricity? We don't just plug radiation in from a nuclear powerplant, it is a process that does the work needed to produce steam which in turn moves a turbine. There is a lot more to it than that but how does just plugging in Cosmic power just work? Can I just stick my phone charger into the Hulk and get a full battery in that case?
    -How does he plan to keep Galactus alive? Victor clearly intends to keep this up long into the future and Galactus will eventually have to feed, so how does he plan on converting a planet into the necessary components to keep Galactus alive?
    -How does he intend to export the Power cosmic throughout the stars if you have a limited supply in Galactus? In-fact how does he plan to get ships into the sky utilizing the power cosmic?
    -Is he going to teach people how to maintain these power generators and new systems? As far as we know, Victor is the only one who knows how to do this so will he be teaching power cosmic engineers and electricians? If not, how is he going to maintain these systems? Doombots maybe? What happens if they get deactivated?



    I think I just put more thought into Victor's plan than Slott actually did.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    You're joking right?

    Doom has terrorized this family for years just because of his ego.
    lest it be forgotten, he also personally murdered Susan.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I don't know why people are bothered. Some other story will just Doombot this moment away.
    that doombot loophole only works for explaining away Doom's supposed out-of-character behavior. but if a doombot is walking around naked, everything should be to the original's scale. so Sue embarrassed him in a way that will stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Many writers have tried to bring Doom down a peg and they always fail. Dan Slot is about to find out the hard way that the dignity of Doom as a character transcends his individual appearances. That the idea of Doom, the villain that makes evil look heroic, the absolute monster who will hold the world together through sheer force of will when all others surrenders, can't be humbled by a bad story arc and some implied full-frontal nudity. You'll see that when this book ends the Fantastic Four will be once again relegated to obscurity but Doctor Doom will retain his popularity in popular culture.
    in popular culture, he's a three-time failure. and i'm not even counting the Roger Corman flick. only long term comic book readers even know about his influence on Darth Vader. he isn't relevant outside of the Fantastic Four. and the Fantastic Four are not yet relevant (or seen as a bad career move for Miles Teller). but i'm rooting for them.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 03-28-2019 at 05:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    So Victor plans to do what? His plan to get Galactus to be the ultimate power source relied on;

    -Victor not just using his weaponized big bangs (seen in the same arc).
    -Not the cosmic power he managed to acquire and imbue in Victorious.
    -He can siphon off power from Galactus and yet chooses not to go for the easier source of power like local stars. A Dyson Sphere or just pulling the energy like from Galactus isn't out of the question. There's nothing to suggest he couldn't have done it.

    Now sure he could try and rid the universe of Galactus, y'know except for the universal calamity part and that Galactus is going to largely ignore Earth anyways so drawing him here is dumb because you can ignore the threat by literally doing nothing.

    But say that Victor succeeds and that he's thought about all of this. He's made his plan and intends to use Galactus's power to give everyone on Earth cosmic power.
    -What does Victor plan to do with all the people he's going to put out of work? Sure everything else will be obsolete but unlimited power doesn't mean those people don't have bills to pay.
    -Who is going to build the infrastructure for every nation on Earth? I can't imagine holding the awesome power cosmic is cheap nor will Victor manage to build it all himself.
    -Who is going to export this? There is a lot of people who'd want this power and Doombots and Servoguards can be reprogrammed, destroyed, deactivated, go rogue, they aren't perfect systems.
    -How does Victor plan to defend himself from every nation on Earth and the galactic populace?
    -How does Victor plan to alter the battery market? Does he really think he can be the sole exporter of batteries to the whole world?
    - And how does he intend to make batteries compliant with every piece of hardware on Earth? Not all batteries are the same so how does he plan on creating batteries usable by everyone on Earth?
    -How does he intend to convert all of this into usable electricity? We don't just plug radiation in from a nuclear powerplant, it is a process that does the work needed to produce steam which in turn moves a turbine. There is a lot more to it than that but how does just plugging in Cosmic power just work? Can I just stick my phone charger into the Hulk and get a full battery in that case?
    -How does he plan to keep Galactus alive? Victor clearly intends to keep this up long into the future and Galactus will eventually have to feed, so how does he plan on converting a planet into the necessary components to keep Galactus alive?
    -How does he intend to export the Power cosmic throughout the stars if you have a limited supply in Galactus? In-fact how does he plan to get ships into the sky utilizing the power cosmic?
    -Is he going to teach people how to maintain these power generators and new systems? As far as we know, Victor is the only one who knows how to do this so will he be teaching power cosmic engineers and electricians? If not, how is he going to maintain these systems? Doombots maybe? What happens if they get deactivated?



    I think I just put more thought into Victor's plan than Slott actually did.
    I think the point is that Doom wasn't putting a ton of thought into his own plan and was just trying to do something huge so that he could beat the FF and make himself look like the hero and God he wants to be

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