Fantastic Four #8 (SPOILERS)

[Michael Watkins]

I think the point is that Doom wasn't putting a ton of thought into his own plan and was just trying to do something huge so that he could beat the FF and make himself look like the hero and God he wants to be

he would need to defeat the Avengers to earn that kind of street cred.

[Prof. Warren]

It remains to be seen if the MCU can retain any measure of social currency post-Endgame. I personally believe that much of the general audience will treat Endgame as a jumping off point and from then on any new MCU movies will suffer from diminishing returns at the box office.

Anyone who doubts the strength of the Marvel brand at this point is being deliberately obtuse.

But I digress, even in such a diminished state there's a better chance of a Doctor Doom solo movie being made, there's already a script written for it. Alas, the same can't be said of the Fantastic Four.

What color is the sky in your world?

Seriously, which property do you think that Disney/Marvel is more invested in going forward? Doom as a solo character or The Fantastic Four?

Spoiler Alert: It's the Fantastic Four. You will never see a Doom solo movie. Certainly not before the FF themselves have a cinematic relaunch.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Doom and Owen SAVED a planet in Secret Wars. Reed had a ship with a small crew. Granted, Reed and Franklin expanded on that recreating a multiverse, but Doom was the guy who kept stuff going. And then after the Bendis and M2I1 issues, Doom had a new outlook which went away because God knows why.

Doom, IMO, should be like Ozymandias in Watchmen. He'll do what needs to be done and he won't worry about keeping his hands clean. Although Reed also has a "Ends Justify the Means", Vic's grey is darker. At this point, I don't think Doom should be doing any mustache twirling villainy. I could buy his capturing a power source to power Latveria. But too many details so far neglect any personal growth. And as much as some may claim otherwise, Doom is probably considered a regular cast member of this book.

I think Doom going back to villainy was foreordained. It's just that there needs to be a sense of occasion. When Mark Waid did Unthinkable, he knew he was taking a hard turn from the more noble demon (or if you are a detractor of that tendency, "cuddly") Doom fans had come to know, but his story does acknowledge that side to him, and admits that it's there, and in that story played Doom going postal for pure horror. In this case no explanation or acknowledgement is given. I don't think Doom is like Ozymandias on the other hand. Dr. Doom is just Dr. Doom. Ozymandias is more like Reed/Tony Stark/Bruce Wayne than anyone.

Dan Slott in general doesn't believe in Arc Welding, i.e. working with the characters given to him and using that as a base to do his take (the Roger Stern, Michelinie, Mark Waid, Alan Moore approach, practiced now by Coates). He said in interviews that comics writers plan stories with the "iconic" versions of the characters but often have to deal with the fact that characters aren't at the moment close to that take, and there's a conflict between doing many stories to rework the characters to the place you want them and simply telling the story you want. Honestly, if they wanted to do FF right, they should have avoided Dr. Doom for at least thirty or forty issues. Just focus on the Four and other parts of their Rogues. Expand on that.

It remains to be seen if the MCU can retain any measure of social currency post-Endgame. I personally believe that much of the general audience will treat Endgame as a jumping off point and from then on any new MCU movies will suffer from diminishing returns at the box office.

I do think superhero saturation will be a problem but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. The MCU runs on novelty, introducing new characters, new concepts, new IPs, and Feige knows that. Now with the FF and X-Men back they have access to their greatest villains -- Dr. Doom, Galactus, Magneto, Annihilus, Kang the Conqueror. James Gunn said he wanted to work with Annihilus and Kang. The greater world-building the FF are part of are probably more valuable than the four themselves are as characters. Black Panther, which originated in a FF issue has now made more money than all FF movies and properties since the '60s combined. And now that you have the Shared Universe, you can do the best version of Doom. The Triumph and Torment Doom, the Secret Wars Doom.

But I digress, even in such a diminished state there's a better chance of a Doctor Doom solo movie being made, there's already a script written for it. Alas, the same can't be said of the Fantastic Four.

Scripts are written all the time in Hollywood. Doesn't mean anything. I do think Doctor Doom can support a solo movie. Venom made $800mn after an uninspired showing in Spider-Man 3. But that's no guarantee. I think the best way to do it is make Dr. Strange 2 or 3 into Triumph and Torment. Have Latveria and Doom show up or get name-dropped or cameo in Black Panther 2 and so on.

that doombot loophole only works for explaining away Doom's supposed out-of-character behavior. but if a doombot is walking around naked, everything should be to the original's scale. so Sue embarrassed him in a way that will stick.

All Doom has to do is release the video of him fighting the Lion naked, Putin style, and Vic will be back. This is comics. Nothing sticks. Except that time Squirrel Girl defeated Doom.

[Michael Watkins]

All Doom has to do is release the video of him fighting the Lion naked, Putin style, and Vic will be back. This is comics. Nothing sticks. Except that time Squirrel Girl defeated Doom.

you must not follow the news. entering a wild animal's natural habitat and killing it just makes you a tool nowadays. and, yes, Squirrel Girl did whoop his rear. then again, so did Ant-man.

#preservethetruth

[Revolutionary_Jack]

you must not follow the news. entering a wild animal's natural habitat and killing it just makes you a tool nowadays.

Only for some people. Not for others.

Of course from a modern perspective, a largely WASP family (Ben Grimm being the exception since he's Jewish) attacking and disrobing a Romani guy also makes them look like a tool, especially when Romani continue to face discrimination in modern Europe.

...and, yes, Squirrel Girl did whoop his rear. then again, so did Ant-man.

#preservethetruth

Yeah. Honestly, come on everyone in the FF has embarrassing moments. Reed was a jerk to Sue and a terrible husband. Sue has to live down marrying a jerk like Reed and that whole Malice thing. There was that time when they had to make a movie for Namor. That time Reed shot his own son with an energy cannon. Dr. Doom likewise delivered Reed's daughter and named her making him a permanent part of their family. And the FF had to live down Josh Trank.

And look at the bright side. Secret Wars that showed the Doom everyone liked sold very well, far better than the current issues. So more eyeballs know that Doom than will know this Doom.

[Michael Watkins]

Only for some people. Not for others.

Of course from a modern perspective, a largely WASP family (Ben Grimm being the exception since he's Jewish) attacking and disrobing a Romani guy also makes them look like a tool, especially when Romani continue to face discrimination in modern Europe.

there isn't a trace of romani in him. he's an elitist who lives in a castle and lords over peasants. to an audience, he's just a dangerous foreigner.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

there isn't a trace of romani in him. he's an elitist who lives in a castle and lords over peasants. to an audience, he's just a dangerous foreigner.

His origins are Romani. He was part of a group of Romani who were racially persecuted by the Latverian aristocracy. That he ultimately became a dictator doesn't change that. And as a dictator, Doom doesn't persecute or discriminate against anyone on racial grounds, and he still identifies as Romani. He's definitely an improvement on the people before him, and an improvement on the likes of jerks like Prince Rudolf and so on. When Luke Cage crashed his castle Doom, after trading fists and insults with Cage, said that Cage was just like him when he was young. A poor minority on the ropes against the world pushing back with all he had.

And be careful about "to an audience" because you don't account for all the people who read comics. Like Ta-Nehisi coates (https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...w-flesh/68108/) who talks of Dr. Doom's influence on the Rap scene, and about how many black comics readers identified with Doom, with all his flaws.

[Michael Watkins]

His origins are Romani. He was part of a group of Romani who were racially persecuted by the Latverian aristocracy. That he ultimately became a dictator doesn't change that. And as a dictator, Doom doesn't persecute or discriminate against anyone on racial grounds, and he still identifies as Romani. He's definitely an improvement on the people before him, and an improvement on the likes of jerks like Prince Rudolf and so on. When Luke Cage crashed his castle Doom, after trading fists and insults with Cage, said that Cage was just like him when he was young. A poor minority on the ropes against the world pushing back with all he had.

And be careful about "to an audience" because you don't account for all the people who read comics. Like Ta-Nehisi coates (https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...w-flesh/68108/) who talks of Dr. Doom's influence on the Rap scene, and about how many black comics readers identified with Doom, with all his flaws.

not a Coates fan. and i've literally never heard a black person talk about Doctor Doom. look at how his background was treated in all 3 of his movie appearances.

[Michael Watkins]

[Revolutionary_Jack]

and i've literally never heard a black person talk about Doctor Doom.

Well now you have. Read that article.

look at how his background was treated in all 3 of his movie appearances.

Movies that only a few saw and nobody really remembers. And Dr. Doom was one of the most criticized parts of the movie adaptations. Dr. Doom being a poor Romani is a feature of his background from FF Annual #2. Both Kirby and Lee saw him as an oppressed kid who at one point was a hero (as in a gadgeteer and guerrilla fighter for Romani against Latverian tyranny) and who can be a hero but eventually because of his flaws, his obsessions and so on, he became a tyrant himself.

And as for that comic you see. There are other comics and issues where Doom and T'Challa are friendly and collegiate (frenemies) and of course that one could be a Doombot (). And if you read the FF's first adventures and encounter, even the Thing said racist crap on Africans at a time when that wasn't criticized too widely.

[Iron Maiden]

Anyone who doubts the strength of the Marvel brand at this point is being deliberately obtuse.



What color is the sky in your world?

Seriously, which property do you think that Disney/Marvel is more invested in going forward? Doom as a solo character or The Fantastic Four?

Spoiler Alert: It's the Fantastic Four. You will never see a Doom solo movie. Certainly not before the FF themselves have a cinematic relaunch.

Seriously right back at you.

Noah Hawley meets with Kevin Feige about his Doctor Doom script And that script is completed. Have you read anything about a treatment for the Fantastic Four yet? It looks like Hawley may be basing some his his script on Books of Doom....

Hawley revealed that Feige asked him if he was still working on the script, to which he replied by saying, "Should I still be working on it?" Unfortunately, no concrete answer was given by Feige, and Hawley is not sure when (or if) the movie will move forward, but he did go on to share some plot details.

he acclaimed writer previously stated that his Doctor Doom film would be a "mixture of genres" that was inspired by Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Now, he specifically mentioned a geopolitical thriller is what he has in mind for the film, which would follow an already powerful Doom who has put a dome over Latveria, the fictional country he rules. After closing his country off from the rest of the world, he invites a female journalist to come to Latveria and be his voice to the world. These details come after Hawley also confirmed that his script was almost done, so this is surely the pitch Feige heard if they discussed any details during this meeting.

Now tell me some news about a Fantastic Four script. Also, Hawley and the Russo brothers are working on a projects together now, one being a TV series on FX . The Russo brothers themselves have been talking about other possibilities, like some kind of version of Secret Wars

[Revolutionary_Jack]

...

Kevin Feige talked about the fact that even when the rights come back there's no guarantee you'd see movie versions right away since in the case of the Fantastic Four, there isn't one good movie made out of it yet. In the case of the X-Men there will be more priority since there have been plenty of good movies out of it and the mythos and the X-Men have been consistent top-sellers for three decades (1970-2000) with their major setback being the intentional act of sabotage that is House of M to demote them in favor of the Avengers.

The FF coming back to Marvel is important because of access to world building and rogues. James Gunn wanted Annihilus and Kang the Conqueror in earlier drafts, and he almost couldn't get Ego the Living Planet because it was tied up with Fox (in which case Fox and Marvel reached a deal of some sorts).

Doctor Doom and what people can do with him has long attracted interest. Ben Mendelsohn, aka Talos and Director Krennic among others, wanted to be Doom. Mads Mikkelsen is interested, and Nicolas Cage said he would have loved to play Doom if he was younger.

[Crimz]

Doom is in the same boat as the FF. His name is just as damaged and tainted from the Fox films considering he was in every single one.

No one knows what Marvel's plans are for the characters so this attempt to one-up each other is pointless.

[Michael Watkins]

Noah Hawley's Doom movie will never see the light of day. because no one cares about Doom. it's too much of a risk for them. this isn't Sony.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men...t-review-a4788

[Iron Maiden]

Noah Hawley's Doom movie will never see the light of day. because no one cares about Doom. it's too much of a risk for them. this isn't Sony.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men...t-review-a4788

LOL.... the date on your article is 2008..... the date on mine is 2018-2019. Hawley doesn't say specifically when Feige asked him about his Doom script but it's safe to say probably in the past 8 or 9 months. I'd say that train has left the station a long time ago about that Magneto solo movie. It's possible something will show up on Marvel/Disney's streaming service. They could even do the same with a Doom movie. But there's definitely more talk about the Doom solo than a Magneto one right now.