Fantastic Four #8 (SPOILERS)

[Revolutionary_Jack]

LOL.... the date on your article is 2008..... the date on mine is 2018-2019. Hawley doesn't say specifically when Feige asked him about his Doom script but it's safe to say probably in the past 8 or 9 months. I'd say that train has left the station a long time ago about that Magneto solo movie. It's possible something will show up on Marvel/Disney's streaming service. They could even do the same with a Doom movie. But there's definitely more talk about the Doom solo than a Magneto one right now.

The Magneto solo movie got reworked into X-Men: First Class which many consider the best X-Men film without Wolverine. So yeah it got done. I think the Doom script could be reworked into a Dr. Strange movie or something like that.

[Iron Maiden]

The Magneto solo movie got reworked into X-Men: First Class which many consider the best X-Men film without Wolverine. So yeah it got done. I think the Doom script could be reworked into a Dr. Strange movie or something like that.

Yeah, I would agree with that. We got the flashback to how his wife and child died. I just thought it was odd that they tied them into a specific point in history, the Cuban Missile Crisis. But I guess that accounts for the older actors playing Charles and Magneto in the first films. But it is confusing to just fans who know them from the movies.

[Inversed]

I think Doom going back to villainy was foreordained. It's just that there needs to be a sense of occasion. When Mark Waid did Unthinkable, he knew he was taking a hard turn from the more noble demon (or if you are a detractor of that tendency, "cuddly") Doom fans had come to know, but his story does acknowledge that side to him, and admits that it's there, and in that story played Doom going postal for pure horror. In this case no explanation or acknowledgement is given. I don't think Doom is like Ozymandias on the other hand. Dr. Doom is just Dr. Doom. Ozymandias is more like Reed/Tony Stark/Bruce Wayne than anyone.

Dan Slott in general doesn't believe in Arc Welding, i.e. working with the characters given to him and using that as a base to do his take (the Roger Stern, Michelinie, Mark Waid, Alan Moore approach, practiced now by Coates). He said in interviews that comics writers plan stories with the "iconic" versions of the characters but often have to deal with the fact that characters aren't at the moment close to that take, and there's a conflict between doing many stories to rework the characters to the place you want them and simply telling the story you want. Honestly, if they wanted to do FF right, they should have avoided Dr. Doom for at least thirty or forty issues. Just focus on the Four and other parts of their Rogues. Expand on that.

It's always a weird thing to me whenever you have a "status quo is God" situation, because it always ends up feeling a little half-assed. Like, yeah, Doom needs to be evil and there has to be no more FF because thats the status quo, while at the same time Valeria and Franklin are teenagers and there's no Baxter Building. It's like his "toy metaphor" he's always talking about, putting back the toys and starting them up at factory setting, but it really just ends up being specific elements the writer things should be reset and ignored.

I honestly think it would've been better to have Doom go back to the "anti-hero" type position he was in Hickman's portrayal, not really going out of his way for global domination, but still seeking power in ways that could benefit him or his country. Just sticking with the plan to siphon Galactus' power as a way to help his country would've fit with this way of thinking, but then you have capturing the FF in torture chambers and planning to murder them, and then it just feels like reverting way too much into generic villainy.

And considering we just had the more heroic version of Doom in Infamous, seeing the pendulum IMMEDIATELY swing to the other direction in almost no time is incredibly jarring. In comparison, I would probably say Magneto's recent swing back to full fledge villainy didn't feel as sudden as this, thought there was at least some buildup. Or even Galactus' change back made sense storywise.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah, I would agree with that. We got the flashback to how his wife and child died. I just thought it was odd that they tied them into a specific point in history, the Cuban Missile Crisis. But I guess that accounts for the older actors playing Charles and Magneto in the first films. But it is confusing to just fans who know them from the movies.

Magneto being a holocaust survivor turned Nazi Hunter and meeting Xavier in the late '50s was always a part of the backstory of the characters in the comics. That was always there. So the characters were definitely rooted in history always. The Cuban Missile Crisis thing is a new wrinkle but in terms of timeline it's not far.

Dr. Doom because he's Latverian and so on has less real history to play with. Ed Brubaker's Books of Doom framed Latveria in a Cold War context (also a subtext in the orgin of Annual 2), where the Russians backed the Latverian government because of geopolitics and the Americans are implied to have paid and supported the guerrillas and so sponsor Victor's education in America, and Doom decides to use both sides against the other to overturn them. Now you have to play that drama and world-building in a Post-Cold War context which can be done. To me Latveria is like Gotham City, it's an entirely fictional landscape with ties to Europe's pre-20th Century past...a world of Gothic Castles, Bram Stoker refugees and so on. So you don't need to anchor it in real-world history as much as you need to do Magneto and Captain America.

It's always a weird thing to me whenever you have a "status quo is God" situation, because it always ends up feeling a little half-assed. Like, yeah, Doom needs to be evil and there has to be no more FF because thats the status quo, while at the same time Valeria and Franklin are teenagers and there's no Baxter Building.

And the Thing got married. Slott remember doesn't have too much experience with regular serial comics situations. He revived canceled titles like She-Hulk and Silver Surfer, and now Fantastic Four. His time at ASM came when he stepped in after this retcon that annulled the entire previous 7 year run and large chunks of the preceding 20 years and as such had to be created ex-nihilo. He's never stepped in the middle of a run with the proviso of carring over the earlier run and how to deal with that. So it might be that he's unused to relay race and baton passing as others are. He might have assumed that enough time that with Marvel A Fresh Start initiative, he can move Doom away from the way audiences had known him most recently and revert without explaining too much. Unfortunately Hickman has become this modern classic. So there are some difficulties adjusting.For all we know, the next few issues could address and fix these issues or give some acknowledgement of it.

[CaptCleghorn]

I think Doom going back to villainy was foreordained. It's just that there needs to be a sense of occasion. When Mark Waid did Unthinkable, he knew he was taking a hard turn from the more noble demon (or if you are a detractor of that tendency, "cuddly") Doom fans had come to know, but his story does acknowledge that side to him, and admits that it's there, and in that story played Doom going postal for pure horror. In this case no explanation or acknowledgement is given. I don't think Doom is like Ozymandias on the other hand. Dr. Doom is just Dr. Doom. Ozymandias is more like Reed/Tony Stark/Bruce Wayne than anyone.

Dan Slott in general doesn't believe in Arc Welding, i.e. working with the characters given to him and using that as a base to do his take (the Roger Stern, Michelinie, Mark Waid, Alan Moore approach, practiced now by Coates). He said in interviews that comics writers plan stories with the "iconic" versions of the characters but often have to deal with the fact that characters aren't at the moment close to that take, and there's a conflict between doing many stories to rework the characters to the place you want them and simply telling the story you want. Honestly, if they wanted to do FF right, they should have avoided Dr. Doom for at least thirty or forty issues. Just focus on the Four and other parts of their Rogues. Expand on that.

As much as I would like to see the non-Doom gallery expanded on, the end of Secret Wars and the happenings in M2I1 and Infamous made the Doom Reed reunion a must. Now that a new Doom has been developed after his attempts at being more of a good guy, I'd agree that leaving him off of the table for a while would be a good idea. Doom's apparent return to villainy does seem to counter years (actually decades) of development and although Doom will occasionally perform horrific tasks, his skinning in Unthinkable was way out of character.

I use the Ozymandias analogy and stand by it for Infamous Iron Man.Doom. His goals are considered good, but his methods, although coming out on top and having pros outweigh cons still have severe moral implications. And I'm saying similar, not the same.

I'm currently reading three Marvel ongoings right now. Squirrel Girl, FF, and Dr Strange. Did we really need Galactus in all three?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm currently reading three Marvel ongoings right now. Squirrel Girl, FF, and Dr Strange. Did we really need Galactus in all three?

The same was asked of Wolverine

[Prof. Warren]

Seriously right back at you.

Noah Hawley meets with Kevin Feige about his Doctor Doom script And that script is completed. Have you read anything about a treatment for the Fantastic Four yet? It looks like Hawley may be basing some his his script on Books of Doom....

The Doom script was in development at Fox, prior to the Disney/Fox merger. Fox had a number of scripts in development for various Marvel properties owned by Fox that will never see the light of day now.

Now that Disney owns Fox, you're not going to see a Doom solo movie before a FF movie. You're just not. You haven't heard about a FF screenplay in development because the Disney/Fox deal wasn't completed. Nothing was going forward on the FF front until it happened. Now that it has, it's just going to be a matter of time. Could be several years before it comes to fruition but an FF movie will be in the pipeline eventually.

[Iron Maiden]

The Doom script was in development at Fox, prior to the Disney/Fox merger. Fox had a number of scripts in development for various Marvel properties owned by Fox that will never see the light of day now.

Now that Disney owns Fox, you're not going to see a Doom solo movie before a FF movie. You're just not. You haven't heard about a FF screenplay in development because the Disney/Fox deal wasn't completed. Nothing was going forward on the FF front until it happened. Now that it has, it's just going to be a matter of time. Could be several years before it comes to fruition but an FF movie will be in the pipeline eventually.

You seem to be ignoring that fact that Kevin Feige met with Noah Hawley and specifically asked if he was still working on the Doom script.....this year. Not two or three years ago. It could mean something maybe nothing. But it's a sign that there is interest on the Disney side now. It could even be a project for their streaming services.

[Michael Watkins]

I use the Ozymandias analogy and stand by it for Infamous Iron Man.Doom. His goals are considered good, but his methods, although coming out on top and having pros outweigh cons still have severe moral implications. And I'm saying similar, not the same.

what are you reading that makes Doom seem anywhere near as competent as Ozymandias? he had to run from the Hood's gang.

[Michael Watkins]

LOL.... the date on your article is 2008..... the date on mine is 2018-2019. Hawley doesn't say specifically when Feige asked him about his Doom script but it's safe to say probably in the past 8 or 9 months. I'd say that train has left the station a long time ago about that Magneto solo movie. It's possible something will show up on Marvel/Disney's streaming service. They could even do the same with a Doom movie. But there's definitely more talk about the Doom solo than a Magneto one right now.

way to miss the point. they planned a Magneto movie. they were serious about it. it got reworked into X-Men First Class. you really don't see how that fits into your argument with the other poster? not doing doom very proud.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

way to miss the point. they planned a Magneto movie. they were serious about it. it got reworked into X-Men First Class. you really don't see how that fits into your argument with the other poster? not doing doom very proud.

There are interests in Thunderbolts and so on (James Gunn pitched it). Zemo is a piece on the table, as is Ghost, and now Red Skull is also on standby. So a villain-centric franchise is not outside the possibility for Marvel. A Doctor Doom movie on its own would be gutsy and risky. But hey Venom made so much money right. So a villain-centric franchise can work. And now you are going to have a Joker standalone movie (might be good/might be bad).

It's more realistic to except Dr. Doom show up in the shared universe before the Fantastic Four do. Doctor Doom's greatest story "Triumph and Torment" is him and Dr. Strange. And it's a great story with a rich pedigree (Roger Stern and Mike Mignola), you can introduce Mephisto and so on. And you have Doom's origins and his connections to sorcery. You can then have Doctor Doom show up or be somewhere in the background of Black Panther II, like say some UN meeting. Then say the third Spider-Man movie you can have Spider-Man accidentally save his life or something when a battle with the Sinister 6 ends up involving him. And then you introduce the Fantastic Four (in a standalone movie without Dr. Doom, establish them as separate).

[Iron Maiden]

I'd certainly be on board with a Doctor Strange/Doctor Doom film. It handles two things at once.....a second movie for Strange which he richly deserves IMO and a way to introduce Doom outside of launching an FF solo.

way to miss the point. they planned a Magneto movie. they were serious about it. it got reworked into X-Men First Class. you really don't see how that fits into your argument with the other poster? not doing doom very proud.

Someone already beat you to that. I only watched part of X-Men First Class so really didn't remember the flashback scene right off. And this is already a done deal. Talks are still going in with future projects other than the ones already greenlit. So the outcomes may be completely different.

[BAS]

You seem to be ignoring that fact that Kevin Feige met with Noah Hawley and specifically asked if he was still working on the Doom script.....this year. Not two or three years ago. It could mean something maybe nothing. But it's a sign that there is interest on the Disney side now. It could even be a project for their streaming services.

I think all the Doom talk with Hawley stems from the fact that Feige wanted to see what Fox was planning after so damaging the Fantastic Four AND Doom with Fant4stic.
Hawley was brought in by Fox to try to salvage something from that debacle -- and Fox wasn't going to go back to Fantastic Four as the feature since Fant4stic was called out by their President as a primary reason for corporate losses that year.

So it's not like Doom was treated as a more desirable property than the Fantastic Four - he was just going to be one of the ways that Fox could hold onto the production right for the Fantastic Four group of characters.

[Michael Watkins]

There are interests in Thunderbolts and so on (James Gunn pitched it). Zemo is a piece on the table, as is Ghost, and now Red Skull is also on standby. So a villain-centric franchise is not outside the possibility for Marvel. A Doctor Doom movie on its own would be gutsy and risky. But hey Venom made so much money right. So a villain-centric franchise can work. And now you are going to have a Joker standalone movie (might be good/might be bad).

triumph and torment only worked because Doom was an established character. you can't introduce the character w/ that story. no one would care. and a Thunderbolts movie is a different animal than a standalone Zemo or Ghost movie. that's kind of my point. Doom isn't the # 1 villain outside of the niche of marvel comics readers. we're used to thinking about him that way. that's a different target audience than the people who are following the MCU. Doom isn't relevant to them yet. a Thanos standalone movie would make more sense. and i'm not advocating it. at least with Thunderbolts, you can advertise it as the MCU's answer to Suicide Squad. people think this is just me hating on Doom. i'm being practical. a Lex Luthor movie isn't going to cut it either. a Joker film is only a thing because of Heath Ledger. he elevated that character. and it's still a huge risk.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think all the Doom talk with Hawley stems from the fact that Feige wanted to see what Fox was planning after so damaging the Fantastic Four AND Doom with Fant4stic.
Hawley was brought in by Fox to try to salvage something from that debacle -- and Fox wasn't going to go back to Fantastic Four as the feature since Fant4stic was called out by their President as a primary reason for corporate losses that year.

So it's not like Doom was treated as a more desirable property than the Fantastic Four - he was just going to be one of the ways that Fox could hold onto the production right for the Fantastic Four group of characters.

Fox were in the process of getting their s--t together just when the merger happened. They made Logan (which is legit one of the greatest comics films ever) and then did the Deadpool movies, and got in on the "do-stuff-with-Marvel-that-Disney/Marvel-won't" market that Sony now has cornered (Venom and ITSV). I think that Doctor Doom solo movie would have been a great thing. Doom as a character is similar to Bruce Wayne. In that there's a layered origin, and long character arc from childhood to adult. Most Marvel characters, their origins are close to their career. And Victor would be Doctor Doom with or without Richards. I mean Reed warning him about that experiment only made Victor hate and resent him but even without that, Doom would be dictator of Latveria and an ubermensch who puts himself against every force in the world and the cosmos and beyond. Theoretically, Doctor Doom can hold a movie on his own, heck an entire trilogy and sub-franchise. Like Astonishing Tales 1-8 had him as a protagonist, as did Books of Doom and Lee-Kirby's Annual #2. And since Fox had X-Men you could have had a Magneto and Doom dance-off and so on.

The Fantastic Four movies have failed because they don't get the FF are explorers and adventurers first rather than superheroes. They are a mix of Indiana Jones and Star Trek only set in Earth and not in a ship travelling through space. It shouldn't be character driven so much as focus more on the setting and cool stuff. Like this time we are going underground, next time in the N-Zone. And they need to take a Nolan approach. Do a movie without Doom first. Get the team and tone and genre right, and then get in the ring with the big V. I think they should go with Mole Man or Puppetmaster in the first movie.