Which villain would be the best "final boss"?

[adrikito]

DARKSEID..

He has his own planet, army and generals.

[Doctor Know]

It has to be Darkseid.




Darkseid and Superman are polar opposites. Remember, Darkseid psychically feeds off the despair and misery of others. Superman inspires hope and confidence in those around him up. There's a reason so many stories involve Darkseid attempting to corrupt Superman and bring him down. Darkseid in the ultimate obstacle for Superman to overthrow. Once Darkseid is dispatched, it will be Darkseid's son, Orion who will sit the throne of Apokolips. Thanks to Superman's help.




Or perhaps Supes should take the throne for himself.

[stargazer01]

It has to be Darkseid. Darkseid and Superman are polar opposites. Remember, Darkseid psychically feeds off the despair and misery of others. Superman inspires hope and confidence in those around him up. There's a reason so many stories involve Darkseid attempting to corrupt Superman and bring him down. Darkseid in the ultimate obstacle for Superman to overthrow. Once Darkseid is dispatched, it will be Darkseid's son, Orion who will sit the throne of Apokolips. Thanks to Superman's help.

I agree with daBronze, Darkseid and the New Gods should be left for the Justice League to fight. So after the Superman solo show is ending, have a cliffhanger of Darkseid coming to Earth. Also new superheroes appear and the Justice League soon forms. But only after Superman has had his own show fully realized for a few seasons. At least 5.

Liking some of these replies on here. Just going to add my two cents.

A Superman-centric show should not presume the existence of any characters not of the Superverse franchise.

Basically, there is no Justice League coming to the rescue. It's Superfam or bust for this tale.

Hence, imho, Darkseid is kinda not the ideal candidate for the big bad. He's great for the entire Justice League, but for the Superverse alone, he seems like overkill.

Also, while he has established a personal animus with Kal, he more belongs to his own franchise (New Gods) or at-large in the general DCU.

Also, Darkseid brings the other New Gods into this tale, which is like cramming a delicious taco salad into a delicious banana split: two great tastes that do not go great together. Too many foreign aspects to blend together.

If we're going the brickhouse cosmic alien conquerer type, give me the Superverse-native Mongul over the outsider Darkseid for a much more compatible narrative mix.

Just give Mongul back his pre-coie strength and durability while further upping his pre-coie TK and TP abilities.

And turn his WarWorld into a legit Dyson's Sphere powered by a mobile red sun at its core.

As for Mxy?

Sorry, but imho, his depiction in WHTTMOT is such a one-time high outlier that ... it's just not Mxy. Like, at all. Mxy's whole shtick is way more like Star Trek's Q: a nigh-omnipotent being who is not bound by spacetime but for whom mischief (not maliciousness) is their defining characteristic.

A truly evil Mxy is a job for the Spectre, not Superman, unless you like boatloads of PIS in your story (and, as bad as PIS is in print, it's 10x worse onscreen).

Anyway, my two cents. So far.

Yes, yes, YES! I totally like your ideas here. I want Superman going cosmic to another places in the universe. To Warworld and to fight without superpowers for his survival and Earth's. And to other planets and dimensions. The Superman mythos is so vast, we deserve to see more of it. But we need great writers who really do their homework on his mythos. Romance is ok, but don't make it the main focus like Smallville/L&C. So yes, Brainiac sounds like the best final boss, especially if he also has a history with Krypton.

[Doctor Know]

I agree with daBronze, Darkseid and the New Gods should be left for the Justice League to fight. So after the Superman solo show is ending, have a cliffhanger of Darkseid coming to Earth. Also new superheroes appear and the Justice League soon forms. But only after Superman has had his own show fully realized for a few seasons. At least 5.

The New Gods are so intricate and complicated, it would take several seasons to explore their mythology and due those characters justice. You can do bit by bit appearances until Darkseid is ready to take center stage.

You really only need to explore:
Forever People + Infinity Man
Mister Miracle and Barda
Orion, Lightray and Highfather
The Furies, Granny, Virmin Vundabar, Steppenwolf and Kanto
Desaad, Dr Bedlam, Glorious Godfrey and Amazing Grace
Darkseid, Anti-Life Equation

In a show setting, that's plenty of material to fill out a couple seasons.

[Jackalope89]

"Darkseid!"
"Brainiac!"

Bah, too simple. The former of which isn't even a Supes villain.

It should be a Superman (multiverse or hypertime alternate version) that makes Clark confront uncomfortable truths or moral crises. Instead of being "Big Bad from this arc", it should be something that challenges Clark on multiple levels.

[Kuwagaton]

Agreed on Mxy being too great to be a threat and... the earlier thought I find perfect: Lex is Gary from Pokemon.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Don't know why people think only Spectre can deal with Mxy. Mxy is a fifth dimensional uber-quantum spacetime bending villain, he's not a supernatural villain, and Alan Moore showed how Mxy can pose a moral challenge to Superman.

As for Darkseid and Brainiac, both of them you can predict the final battle/outcome. Either Superman wins and defeats them somehow, or they win. It's boring and predictable. Whereas Mxyzsptlk is uber-unpredictable.

And Mxyzsptlk was a beloved creation by Siegel and Shuster, and designed to be the most powerful threat in Superman's rogues, the one villain Superman can't punch his way away and so has to use his brain to outsmart him. Superman doesn't, usually, need his brain to shut down Luthor and others. But he does againsy Mxy. So in a way Mxy is the one rogue against whom Superman is what every human in the planet is in relation to him.

Whereas Brainiac was created later, and Darkseid as far as Kirby was concerned was never envisioned to be a Superman rogue, though he was okay if he got to be the ultimate villain of the DC Universe.

[Vampire Savior]

Liking some of these replies on here. Just going to add my two cents.

A Superman-centric show should not presume the existence of any characters not of the Superverse franchise.

Basically, there is no Justice League coming to the rescue. It's Superfam or bust for this tale.

Hence, imho, Darkseid is kinda not the ideal candidate for the big bad. He's great for the entire Justice League, but for the Superverse alone, he seems like overkill.

Also, while he has established a personal animus with Kal, he more belongs to his own franchise (New Gods) or at-large in the general DCU.

Also, Darkseid brings the other New Gods into this tale, which is like cramming a delicious taco salad into a delicious banana split: two great tastes that do not go great together. Too many foreign aspects to blend together.

Do not go great together? Superman and the New Gods are a perfect fit to me. Darkseid supplying tech to groups like Intergang is a great concept, and Darkseid himself is a great antagonist for Superman. I mean... Orion is... okay and all, but Superman vs. Darkseid is just a way bigger draw, and weirdly, just seems to fit better to me. If Superman and the New Gods didn't work so well together I don't think it would have been done nearly as much. It also helps that Darkseid made is debut in a Jimmy Olsen comic.

The story almost writes itself. Superman encounters some basic thugs that he thinks will be a breeze, but it turns out they have some weird tech and he can't take them down. Then things go and grow from there...

[Kuwagaton]

Superman and the New Gods is probably the greatest relationship lost to history if we consider the inevitable return of the LoSH. When a creator respects both properties it's hand and glove.

Don't know why people think only Spectre can deal with Mxy. Mxy is a fifth dimensional uber-quantum spacetime bending villain, he's not a supernatural villain, and Alan Moore showed how Mxy can pose a moral challenge to Superman.

As for Darkseid and Brainiac, both of them you can predict the final battle/outcome. Either Superman wins and defeats them somehow, or they win. It's boring and predictable. Whereas Mxyzsptlk is uber-unpredictable.

And Mxyzsptlk was a beloved creation by Siegel and Shuster, and designed to be the most powerful threat in Superman's rogues, the one villain Superman can't punch his way away and so has to use his brain to outsmart him. Superman doesn't, usually, need his brain to shut down Luthor and others. But he does againsy Mxy. So in a way Mxy is the one rogue against whom Superman is what every human in the planet is in relation to him.

Whereas Brainiac was created later, and Darkseid as far as Kirby was concerned was never envisioned to be a Superman rogue, though he was okay if he got to be the ultimate villain of the DC Universe.

Funny enough on the first page of his first appearance, they specifically call Mxy supernatural, though I can understand not classifying him as such. But they certainly didn't design him as a villain. Mxy being sinister and actually trying is a square hole for a round character, and the limited novelty of it pretty much all went toward Moore's finale.

I don't put the Spectre on such a pedestal. I'd never pick him as a stage boss for Superman, but that too is because of what Siegel planned and what's been depicted since. I think he's way beyond Superman until it makes sense for Superman to have to operate at his level, because if we're talking about a final boss we're not really talking about who Superman can never beat.

In a videogame I'd say Dominus and then Luthor post credits.

[PCN24454]

I would say Zone Child.

[Ascended]

Interesting question.

Okay. You shouldn't use Darkseid. There's enough overlap between the New Gods and Superman I feel like Darkseid can "count" as a Superman villain. And I think you can do a story where Clark on his own repels Darkseid without disrespecting or misusing the Anti-God. But while it would be a titanic, cinematic struggle that would take everything Clark has and more, the best Clark would be doing (if things are done properly) is deflecting Darkseid. Not stopping him, not defeating him, just....stalling him. And that "victory" would just be one small corner of the New Gods' much larger war. Do you really want Superman's final battle be the equivalent of a pawn taking another pawn? It would cheapen the finale of a Superman show to make his last battle a temporary draw on a relatively unimportant battle in a cosmic chess game.

Myx *could* work but he's rarely shown to be truly malevolent. I dunno, I feel like he's a great antagonist but he's not the "Final Boss" kind of villain, I think.

Brainiac or Zod could certainly work. But they'd also be kinda....expected. Still, there's a WHOLE lot of amazing potential in Brainiac as the final boss and even though we've seen Zod entirely too much he'd also be a damn worthy consideration. But still. Expected.

Mongul could be a fantastic villain but he's not really the "season long big bad" type. He shows up, kicks your ass, drinks your wine from the skull of his victims, and leaves. Unless you do a wild season where, I dunno, the whole earth is under siege from Warworld, or Warworld has already won and Clark's trying to save what's left....I don't see Mongul having the mileage for this role.

Whoever the last villain is, it has to be someone who hurts Clark emotionally. It has to be real personal and run real deep.

Manchester Black might fit the bill if he was used correctly; he contrasts and challenge's Superman's purpose nicely. Lots to work with here. I hate Action 775 but I love Black, his subsequent arcs and appearances were even better, his suicide was the perfect ending......he could do very well for a final season boss.

I don't like the "Thunderbolt Ross" stuff but I do think Sam Lane can be used as an antagonist without falling into that "blowhard general" cliche. If previous seasons built up a reasonable argument for the military to try and take Clark in hand, to force him into cooperation or something, it could be done well. Imagine a Sam Lane who has hated Lois' boyfriend (and Superman) for several seasons, and now he's finally starting to turn around on both guys.....and he's ordered to attack Superman. It could make Sam a real conflicted, intriguing character and make for some great family drama. And then you can reveal that Sam was getting his orders from Amanda Waller at the end.

Ultra-Humanite would be very poetic. Superman's first villain becomes his last. And if you're keeping Clark in a Golden Age power level then a hyper intelligent gorilla makes for a worthy final boss.

Bruno Mannheim and Intergang could be really good too. Superman finally clears the Gang out of the city, after seasons of trying to clean up the streets. But like Ultra, this works better for a Golden Age style Superman more than the cosmic almost-god we're used to today.

Could use Professor Hamilton/Ruin. I never cared for that, thought it came out of nowhere really, but he'd be a viable choice for a season-long puppet master who makes the fight personal in the end.

Ideally in my head, the final confrontation is with Lex, and no one throws a punch. Action 900 type of stuff; Superman's last (meaningful) fight should be a philosophical argument that saves humanity from itself.

[PCN24454]

I’m completely serious.

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Zone Child or bust.

What better final boss than the God of the Phantom Zone?

[Kuwagaton]

I'm more into that as a source of power for Lex to be the last boss.

Brainiac, IMO, gets too much respect for being old and not enough for being a major threat. I think he could work in several ways, especially with all the recent stories where he takes on the multiverse and stuff.

[Arsenal]

I feel like Myx would work better as a reoccurring antagonist than he would as the series big bad

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Scarecrow in the Arkham games was a kind of trickster boss in the first game but then he came back in the third and became the final ultimate villain of the series. So you can do Mxy that way.