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  1. #1
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Default Better Arch-Nemesis(es) for the Flash(es): Evil Speedster or Evil Coldster?

    The Flash.

    Unlike Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, or Aquaman, the Flash is not a Single-Identity-That-Always-Revamps-Itself (SITARI).

    Instead, like the Green Lantern of Earth, the Flash is a Multiple-Identity-That-Usually-Replaces-Itself (MITURI).

    MITURIs have a much harder time than SITARIs (which are totally made-up terms that no one else uses), especially when it comes to matching the SITARIs' stability for Supporting casts and rogues galleries.

    Speaking of rogues galleries, it's doubly hard for the Flashes' villains to reach the levels of Joker or Luthor.

    Part of that, I believe, is because there isn't a clear opposite number across the almost 80 years of the Flashverse.

    On the one hand, you have the Evil Speedsters, mainly consisting of The Rival, Reverse-Flash, Zoom, and Savitar.

    On the other hand, you have the Evil Coldsters, mainly consisting of The Icicle, Captain Cold, Killer Frost, Chillblaine (ha!), and (though this would be a very controversial franchise-theft, I feel he belongs more here than in Gotham) Mr. Freeze.

    Which of these two villain types makes for a better practical arch-enemy?

    I get that Eobard has been positioned as the Luthor/Joker of the Flashverse since Barry returned and definitely since the New52 instead Eobard directly into Barry's origin (and removing Jay as any source of inspiration, btw).

    But to me, cold represents the opposite of speed. Coldsters cool things down, thereby slowing things down. They should be able to neutralize the overwhelming advantage that speedsters have over non-speedsters (unless PIS is involved).

    I kinda wish we had a genuine metahuman with Omega Iceman level powers at DC. Or maybe amp Killer Frost way the heck up, I dunno.

    What do you Flash fans think?

    Evil Speedster vs Evil Coldster for the Arch-Nemesis Crown?

    No poll this time.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    I'm kinda torn on this one.

    On one hand I do think it's cool that heroes have villains that are their exact opposites. Bizzaro to Superman, that V guy, forget his name, to Batman, Sinestro to Green Lantern. But I think it's more creative to come up with a heroes main villain not be just a mirror image. So Superman has Luthor, Batman has Joker, Green Lantern has Hector Hammond,(arguably ).

    But on the other hand someone as powerful as the Flash seems kind of dumb to have his biggest threat to be a guy who has a freeze gun.

    I think at the end though I'll go with Captain Cold or even the Turtle and have faith the writers will be able to come up with something good.

    I do think it is cool to have to mirror villain as well. Just not as the arch nemisis.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake.

    Currently Reading: Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner era), Justice League of America (Silver age era), Huntress ('89 series)

  3. #3
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    Prof Zoom as arch nemesis, Eobard himself, not the MITURI, but you probably see more of Cap Cold, who is a great character, and thee most interesting coldster around, period. I actually like the dynamic as it exists in the comics now.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think at this point in the franchise it's very hard to argue against Reverse-Flash being the Flash's Archenemy.

    He's been portrayed as The Flash (and Barry's) de-facto Archnemesis and greatest villain for a while now and across multiple media.

    Even the other Flashes have been given their own Reverse-Flashes (or retroactively connected old ones)...Rival for Jay, Zoom for Wally, Inertia for Bart.

    Captain Cold is awesome but he really needs to be bolstered up by The Rogues and is much more smaller-scale then Reverse-Flash is.

    Thawne fits all the proper criteria for an Archenemy.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I don't think there's much arguing against Reverse-Flash from a franchise perspective? But that doesn't mean I have to like it. My favorite thing about Eobard Thawne is that he's related to Malcolm Thawne, and Cobalt Blue is probably who I'd vote for, even though he's mostly just from that one story in the '90s.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  6. #6
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    I feel like an energy absorber would be a better archnemisis for the Flashes. Speed is basically another type of kinetic energy.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I like that most heroes have a main enemy who's the "dark mirror" version and the "polar opposite" version. For the Flash, I think the opposite would be someone to whom speed means nothing - someone like a Cronos who manipulates time because what's speed when taken out of context of relative time? I know Cronos is an Atom villain, but he should be re-fashioned as a Flash Big Bad to be that "polar opposite" villain moreso than Capt Cold.

  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I like that most heroes have a main enemy who's the "dark mirror" version and the "polar opposite" version. For the Flash, I think the opposite would be someone to whom speed means nothing - someone like a Cronos who manipulates time because what's speed when taken out of context of relative time? I know Cronos is an Atom villain, but he should be re-fashioned as a Flash Big Bad to be that "polar opposite" villain moreso than Capt Cold.
    I guess one way of looking at is someone who uses speed responsibly (The Flash) versus someone who doesn't (Reverse-Flash).

  9. #9
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    Coldsters? Wouldn't crykinetic be the better term?

    Anyway I think evil Speedsters are better as has been shown by history.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    it's all a matter of perspective. For a grandiose, 1 on 1 threat it's a speedster vs speedster showdown. But there's something more human about Flash fighting Captain Cold and the Rogues. They aren't completely evil like Eobard, they're crooks and mentally ill people. It's the difference between the Joker and Two-Face- narratively, most of the rogues are just on the verge of being anti-villains at best but just keep falling.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I like that most heroes have a main enemy who's the "dark mirror" version and the "polar opposite" version. For the Flash, I think the opposite would be someone to whom speed means nothing - someone like a Cronos who manipulates time because what's speed when taken out of context of relative time? I know Cronos is an Atom villain, but he should be re-fashioned as a Flash Big Bad to be that "polar opposite" villain moreso than Capt Cold.
    Shh don't give away season 6's big bad

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Coldsters? Wouldn't crykinetic be the better term?

    Anyway I think evil Speedsters are better as has been shown by history.
    I don't think cryokinetic works since that only really refers to New 52 Cold who had legitimate cold powers and wasn't just a guy with a gun.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I think the question is flawed in a few ways. One because it focuses on the power-set and not the theme behind the villain's character, and two because Captain Cold is never really facing off against the Flash by himself. I think the Rogues and Reverse Flash/Zoom are each quality and I'm not sure which I prefer. But I don't need either to be "ultimate' villain.

  14. #14
    Spectacular Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Compelling conflicts make for the best villains. And it's just not due to speed that Thawne is the Flash's arch-nemesis. Just look at the TV show - as hokey as it is, its high point was showing how powerful and complete Thawne is as the 'opposite number', both in speed and in manipulating history.

  15. #15
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    As much as I love Captain Cold, the evil speedsters win hands down.
    Professor Zoom was ALWAYS Barry's arch nemesis and that was BEFORE Flashpoint and having the character rammed down out throat every sixth issue since.
    While the Rival wasn't really Jay's number 1 bad guy, (did Jay really have an arch nemesis?) he has always certainly been cool as hell!
    Savitar was in my humble opinion, a damn near perfect foil for Wally. I remember being absolutely HOOKED reading Dead Heat. Waiting for the next issue killed me. Another speedster, even MORE powerful and knowledgable in all things speed force who could also speed his fanatical followers. Played against Wally's "I don't buy into this mumbo jumbo crap" frame of mind made it even cooler. I was disappointed he was never used again, then cast aside by Geoff Johns like week old potato salad.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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