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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    *cough* Secretary of the Justice Society *cough*

    I think one could easily look into issues of sexism within the superhero community. Her origin means that she has not internalised the sexism of our society, not that she magically avoids it.
    I hear about that situation. I doesn't mean there wasn't sexism for Wonder Woman in comics. Of course, there was sexism, especially old stories.

    However, the topic was about current stories representing the aspect of minorities from their main characters perspective.

    Currently, it's difficult to represent the problems of a minority from Wonder Woman perspective in her stories, because she couldn't suffer many of the problems that women suffer as minority.
    Last edited by Konja7; 04-01-2019 at 07:53 AM.

  2. #17
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Rucka's done a decent job, but even he has not really delved into her radical aspects to any great degree: I'd say he and Simone are about on par there, though they emphasise different aspects. Among female writers, I haven't read Jodi Picoult, Finch was a disaster, but I think Fontana's run is underrated. Nothing earth-shattering, but a solid story.

    But I think I should be clear here: there is a difference between writing a solid Wonder Woman adventure with a decent grasp of her personality, and really delving into her radical political roots. Both Rucka and Simone has proven themselves able of the first. Of the second, not so much; how much of that is because of DC and because of themselves, I can't tell.
    For what it's worth, much of Gail's run was spent fixing what came before and world building while having her storylines interfered with by editorial in mid-tale. From my pov, her run was cut short just as she was starting to take off into new territory by the Issue 600 reboot. It's a shame because I'd have really liked to have seen where she went. By far, she is one of my favorite writers of Diana because (a) I think she nailed Diana's voice and personality and (b) she showed Diana as a powerhouse.

    Maybe one day she can be talked into taking another shot, but I doubt it as she prefers to keep moving on into new characters and territory once a run is done.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Currently, it's difficult to represent the problems of a minority from Wonder Woman perspective in her stories, because she couldn't suffer many of the problems that women suffer as minority.
    Why? Even powerful women has to face everyday sexism. If the choice is made to bring back the Diana Prince identity (not that I think it's needful), then you have all the more reason and opportunity to do so. You also have that Diana likely has very different views on issues of race/ethnicity, sexuality, or gender, making all these ripe for exploration. Especially since one of her superpowers is empathy.

    There is no requirement that the protagonist be a member of group X in order to examine prejudices against group X. It helps, but it's not a requirement.
    ęSpeaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given outĽ (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Why? Even powerful women has to face everyday sexism. If the choice is made to bring back the Diana Prince identity (not that I think it's needful), then you have all the more reason and opportunity to do so. You also have that Diana likely has very different views on issues of race/ethnicity, sexuality, or gender, making all these ripe for exploration. Especially since one of her superpowers is empathy.

    There is no requirement that the protagonist be a member of group X in order to examine prejudices against group X. It helps, but it's not a requirement.
    I understand. As you say, even powerful women has to face sexism.

    So, why Wonder Woman is usually shown from an privileged position (even from a writer like Wilson)?

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Lack of understanding or respect for her supporting characters and villains which in many ways could be seen as not truely grasping WW as a character.

  6. #21
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    [QUOTE=mathew101281;4283786]Lack of understanding or respect for her supporting characters and villains which in many ways could be seen as not truely grasping WW as a character.[/QUOTE

    This is one of my biggest problems with many WW writers. Seems like every writer comes along and either ignores her supporting cast or, create their own. Imagine if Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang or, Lois Lane were ignored by Superman writers or, if Alfred didn't appear in the Bat books for years at a stretch. Fans would be outraged yet, this is what happens to Diana's supporting cast. Why did it take so long for us to get a contemporary Steve Trevor and Etta Candy? Where is Cassie, Donna and heck, the rest of the Amazons for cryin out loud?! It's crazy to me that you have all of these characters sidelined that give the book a sense of family and continuity.

    As for WW villains, why is it that ever since Cheetah showed up post nu52 and Rebirth, she's mainly appeared in JL?? To be honest, I'm a bit worn out from the Greek gods as adversaries. Build up her rogues gallery. There's been plenty of worthy villains throughout the years to chose from that could use a modern take.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I understand. As you say, even powerful women has to face sexism.

    So, why Wonder Woman is usually shown from an privileged position (even from a writer like Wilson)?
    I think you are thinking too binary here.

    Not every woman faces sexism in every situation. Privilege matters in some situations, but not in others. There is only so much you can cram into a story at the same time as well.

    Wilson is right now looking at the experience of migrants and refugees. That does not mean you can't explore other stuff as well, but any good exploration takes care and enough space to handle, and any good storyteller knows that a good story can only carry so many messages or meanings at once before it gets turned into a directionless mess.
    ęSpeaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given outĽ (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #23
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    I think terms like "good" or "sucks" are purely subjective as they are really a basis of opinion. What one person over here says "sucks" someone else over there may say the same story was "good." For example, I enjoyed Alan Heinberg's "Who is Wonder Woman" story from the Post-Infinite Crisis/One Year Later launch, but I know there are a lot of people who didn't. Doesn't make me right and them wrong. Just different. While Azzarello's run wasn't my cup of tea there were certain aspects of it I could appreciate. I remember as a kid I HATED the Perez run because of all the ways it strayed from the Pre-Crisis/Bronze Age WW...which to my seven year-old self was the "real WW." I think one of the things that has hurt this book is that writers don't commit to extended runs where they have the opportunity to develop a supporting cast and rogues gallery. They come on for six, maybe twelve, issues to tell "their" story and dive in assuming we know all we need to know about Diana and her world and they get in and get out. Either the writer or DC hasn't really committed to spending the time needed to build her world up. The last writer I can think of who did that was Perez. He went for 5 years and 60 issues. Who's got the longest run after him? Byrne at 36 issues (3 years)? Perez also had a strong editor on his run in Karen Berger. That really helped keep things on track and consistent as well. Tom King's "Batman" run is divisive on the boards. Some hate it, some love it, but give the guy credit for committing to 100 issues to tell and develop his story. Has any writer come in and said "I want to do 100 issues of Wonder Woman?" Would DC even let them at this point? She needs someone willing to put in the time and work and then DC needs to make sure they when that writer is done, they don't go in and crap all over what they did. It kind of happened with Perez if you go back and read "The Contest" and look at all the changes WML made to the origin. Happened to all of them. One writer signs off the next one comes in and throws everything out. Phil Jimenez tried to give her a love interest who ended up being killed by Walt Simeonson and then Rucka destroyed the "New Themyscria" that he set up. Instead of being told to work within the confines what has been set-up, new writers are being told that it's ok to dismantle what's come before. I believe that has contributed to a lot of confusion and lack of excitement. Why get invested in characters and plots when history has shown us it's not going to matter in the long run? I think WW needs a good and consistent EDITOR who will say "no" when they need to. Did I answer the question? I kind of went off on a tangent. Sorry.

  9. #24
    Amazing Member Angleman70's Avatar
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    I agree with your frustrations. I too, have been so bored or just ticked off with DC lately I only see red! There is no continuity with her mythos, her supporting cast, her rouges (if she really has any good ones anymore), her costume, her powers and her past events. I almost would put it out there that Dan d. And g. Johns donít like her. Whenever we get a new writer they immediately just ignore the past ones work. I would love for us to storm into DC HQ and force them to read every issue of all her books and then give them the WW ENCYCLOPEDIA to use for future work. Hereís another scary thought, Batman will always be their first and only priority. That needs to change and soon!

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    A few thoughts that I’ve jotted down while I play around with her characters and concepts and any new characters I’m developing for her mythos:

    Embrace her political nature, her Amazon philosophy, and the world-changing mission inherent in the character and marry it to the action and adventure and superheroics inherent in her character.

    Expand her world beyond threats from Greek mythology, to include and elevate her unused costumed supervillains.

    Develop her supporting cast into into intriguing and special characters. People should want to read more Hippolyta, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, other named Amazons, Donna Troy, Cassie and Helena Sandsmark, Vanessa and Julia Kapatelis, Ed Indelicato, etc.

    Give Diana a city where many of these characters can operate and that’s as unique and thematically fitting for her as Metropolis is for Supes and Gotham is for Bats.

    Realize that Wonder Woman can “work” in as many genres and tones as Batman; crime, superhero, mystery, sci-fi, horror, comedy, camp, drama, etc. - she has no limits.

    Invest in and double down on her concepts - Diana Prince ID, invisible jet, Transformation Island, etc.

  11. #26
    Amazing Member Angleman70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    A few thoughts that Iíve jotted down while I play around with her characters and concepts and any new characters Iím developing for her mythos:

    Embrace her political nature, her Amazon philosophy, and the world-changing mission inherent in the character and marry it to the action and adventure and superheroics inherent in her character.

    Expand her world beyond threats from Greek mythology, to include and elevate her unused costumed supervillains.

    Develop her supporting cast into into intriguing and special characters. People should want to read more Hippolyta, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, other named Amazons, Donna Troy, Cassie and Helena Sandsmark, Vanessa and Julia Kapatelis, Ed Indelicato, etc.

    Give Diana a city where many of these characters can operate and thatís as unique and thematically fitting for her as Metropolis is for Supes and Gotham is for Bats.


    Realize that Wonder Woman can ďworkĒ in as many genres and tones as Batman; crime, superhero, mystery, sci-fi, horror, comedy, camp, drama, etc. - she has no limits.

    Invest in and double down on her concepts - Diana Prince ID, invisible jet, Transformation Island, etc.
    Nay to the invisible jet! Diana does not need it nor should she have it when she is supposed to fly. Maybe Steve Trevor should have it?

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angleman70 View Post
    Nay to the invisible jet! Diana does not need it nor should she have it when she is supposed to fly. Maybe Steve Trevor should have it?
    I think there’s room to broaden the concept in the mythos and include it for Diana, the Amazons, and her close friends and loved ones.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I think there’s room to broaden the concept in the mythos and include it for Diana, the Amazons, and her close friends and loved ones.
    Agree. I've always thought the invisible jet was WW's Batmobile. It's a signature part of her arsenal.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Rucka gave her flight too soon in Year One. It was one of the decisions of the post-Crisis reboot I would have preferred been corrected. That should have happened some time between Year One and the Lies, but she needs a few years to get some use out of the Invisible Plane, IMO. It's better for her to be inclusive of all her iconic elements instead of discarding them willy nilly. Doesn't mean she has to rely on it NOW, but it should be in her history.

  15. #30
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    I would say that the most common pitfall for authors is they make Wonder Woman boring. She tends to be depicted as being too serious, even joyless.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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