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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    And what are those things? I'd like to know because I don't know the character beyond the live action versions. I just know she's a warrior princess and an ambassador for peace.




    Do you really think the invisible plane works in the new live action movies? How would you incorporate it? Why would the Amazons need a plane to never use it? I understand in the movies they can't get out the island. This needs an explanation, you can't just suddenly show the plane.
    A scientist, teacher, philosohper, LGTBQ icon, etc. And let me point out that many writers that have tried to focus only on warrior princess or ambassador have failed. Because they have done nothing big with those concepts. She hasn't been very involved in peace making matters. And as a so called badass powerhouse Godly warrior? She hasn't had any WOW action moment in a long time. So the OP is right. Many people just half ass anthing relate to her character.

  2. #47
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    A scientist, teacher, philosohper, LGTBQ icon, etc. And let me point out that many writers that have tried to focus only on warrior princess or ambassador have failed. Because they have done nothing big with those concepts. She hasn't been very involved in peace making matters. And as a so called badass powerhouse Godly warrior? She hasn't had any WOW action moment in a long time. So the OP is right. Many people just half ass anthing relate to her character.
    I definitely see her as an agent of change in the world we live in, and even more in the past when women didn't have the same rights and privileges that men have. Writers could do so much with that. And a teacher, yes, she could teach lots of things.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What should be the basic thing that majority of writers should know about Diana and her mythos? I mean that’s where I think she gets lost a lot of writers don’t seem to get her basic characters. Another thing she suffers from is not iconic city. They focus on her magic side but not on other sides that make her Wonder Woman. I mean she also has a science fiction
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What should be the basic thing that majority of writers should know about Diana and her mythos? I mean that’s where I think she gets lost a lot of writers don’t seem to get her basic characters. Another thing she suffers from is not iconic city. They focus on her magic side but not on other sides that make her Wonder Woman. I mean she also has a science fiction
    It is very obvious some writers go out of their way to make her "safe" for them to use. They don't like many of the ideas of the character. Including the power fantasy approach of a woman being so powerful. Just look at all that has happened since 2011. Changing her origin to a generic female kratos-hercules. Changing the amazons,making her act as a generic warrior woman seeking for battle at all times. The reduce of her power level, etc. It is all very obvious to me.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    It is very obvious some writers go out of their way to make her "safe" for them to use. They don't like many of the ideas of the character. Including the power fantasy approach of a woman being so powerful. Just look at all that has happened since 2011. Changing her origin to a generic female kratos-hercules. Changing the amazons,making her act as a generic warrior woman seeking for battle at all times. The reduce of her power level, etc. It is all very obvious to me.
    I don't think it is a problem of a woman being pretty powerful. I mean feminist women have written Wonder Woman more weak than she should be.

    I suspect it's because writers like the warrior aspect of Wonder Woman. She being extremely powerful makes difficult she can show her warrior abilities, since she should defeat her enemies with a punch.


    PS: I think the reduction of her power level existed before 2011, right?

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I don't think it is a problem of a woman being pretty powerful. I mean feminist women have written Wonder Woman more weak than she should be.

    I suspect it's because writers like the warrior aspect of Wonder Woman. She being extremely powerful makes difficult she can show her warrior abilities, since she should defeat her enemies with a punch.


    PS: I think the reduction of her power level existed before 2011, right?
    I never said it was a male writers problem only.

    She doesn't show much fighting skills anymore. So that is very ironic.

    Compared to GA Wonder Woman maybe. But i'd take Post Crisis power level over N52-Rebirth any day.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    She doesn't show much fighting skills anymore. So that is very ironic.
    The warrior aspect isn't just fighting skills. It's about fighting their enemies face to face and even struggle.

    In other words, you wouldn't show a warrior aspect if you defeat your enemies with a punch.
    Last edited by Konja7; 04-04-2019 at 01:44 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    Rather, the character is supposed to be a product of a utopian society, and contemporary culture is not very accepting of, too suspicious of utopias. Ursula LeGuin nailed it: for contemporaries to accept utopias, there has to be a dark secret, some tormented child sniffling in the dark. But Wonder Woman needs her utopia, without it she does not work: because the pathos of her origin is that she was a product of a wonderful place, an earthly paradise, and that she left it behind for love or duty. Trying to mar the utopian nature of Themiscyra fails completely, and looks like uncomprehending vandalism to me.
    Yeah, you're right. But can't have her crowding Superman's space-Jesus gig, can we?
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 04-05-2019 at 04:25 AM.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    Rather, the character is supposed to be a product of a utopian society, and contemporary culture is not very accepting of, too suspicious of utopias. Ursula LeGuin nailed it: for contemporaries to accept utopias, there has to be a dark secret, some tormented child sniffling in the dark.
    For those who are curious, the story is "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas". It is available in many anthologies.
    ęSpeaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given outĽ (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    The warrior aspect isn't just fighting skills. It's about fighting their enemies face to face and even struggle.

    In other words, you wouldn't show a warrior aspect if you defeat your enemies with a punch.
    She has faced her enemies face to face during her whole existence.

    I see warriors defeating enemies with a punch all the time. Strugging should depend on the enemy she is facing. This whole concept of current WW struggling with almost anything is not a good look. Because the whole warrior aspect is also supposed to be about her being an epic fighting machine powerful enough to take on many different threats. Where is that aspect in WW's fights these past years? It's not there anymore. So yea, some writers can't even get that right.
    Last edited by starlight25; 04-08-2019 at 01:12 PM.

  11. #56
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Yeah, you're right. But can't have her crowdimg Superman's space-Jesus gig, can we?
    There's a big difference between the two origins, though. Superman was thrown out of his Utopia as a baby. Wonder Woman makes an adult, knowing decision to leave hers behind and venture out into a word filled with evils.
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  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    The Jesus stuff should be ditched for both of them.

    Superman's Space Moses.

  13. #58
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The Jesus stuff should be ditched for both of them.

    Superman's Space Moses.
    It can sort of work for Diana given her semi-divine origin whether of clay or Zeusí kid, and it meshes well with Dianaís mission of peacefully enacting social change for Manís World. Diana is sort of a secular feminist Messiah (although she does have religious beliefs). Itís never worked for Supes though, heís Pulp Sci-Fi first and foremost with a dash of Moses/Samson.

    Honestly making Diana a more explicit FemJesus would make for an interesting Elseworld take imo.

  14. #59
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Superman is totally a Jesus figure to me. His otherworldly father Jor-El sent his only son to Earth to save us, inspire us and give us hope. He was even killed and came back to life. And he can fly and has superpowers that make him seem like a god. The Jesus/Superman parallels exist for a reason.

    I can't see the Jesus/WW connection, though. Sure, she's powerful and different but I see her more like a warrior.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Semi-divine offspring of God(s) sent out of Paradise to teach the world a new way of living? Obviously there are differences but you could make the comparison with Diana.

    Everything you said about Supes are stuff I disagree strongly about and aren’t really what the character is meant to be. But we should leave that discussion for the Superman forum, feel free to make a thread over there if you want to talk more about it.

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