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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Superman is totally a Jesus figure to me. His otherworldly father Jor-El sent his only son to Earth to save us, inspire us and give us hope. He was even killed and came back to life. And he can fly and has superpowers that make him seem like a god. The Jesus/Superman parallels exist for a reason.

    I can't see the Jesus/WW connection, though. Sure, she's powerful and different but I see her more like a warrior.
    Literally, most of what you said for comparison between Superman and Jesus applies to Wonder Woman as well.

    Just change "His otherworldly father Jor-El sent his only son to Earth" for something like "The daughter of God (or a semidivine woman born without a worldly father) went to the man's world".
    Last edited by Konja7; 04-05-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Having more stuff in your backstory doesn't automatically enrich it. Sometimes it overcrowds and convolutes it. They should have ditched the jet when she gained the power of flight as there was never any reason to bring it back other than nostalgia. Not everything in a character's history has to be kept.
    I can see the usefulness of a jet versus being able to fly, depending on whether the jet has it's own arsenal, might be faster then her average flight speed, and is invisible to radar and other senses.

  3. #63
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can see the usefulness of a jet versus being able to fly, depending on whether the jet has it's own arsenal, might be faster then her average flight speed, and is invisible to radar and other senses.
    good idea. maybe the invisible jet is Diana's Fortress of Solitude or Batcave; a place she can go to put important stuff she needs. Make it big enough to be used as a temporary, tiny home when she needs to go away and be alone. Some people live in boats or small trailers. maybe she uses technology that allows her to make the jet invisible when she wants.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Having more stuff in your backstory doesn't automatically enrich it. Sometimes it overcrowds and convolutes it. They should have ditched the jet when she gained the power of flight as there was never any reason to bring it back other than nostalgia. Not everything in a character's history has to be kept.
    Not everything has to be so casually discarded either. What is the plane doing exactly that is causing convolution and crowding?

    Putting it aside when she gains flight is what I've been saying. But she went a few years without flight and used the plane. Why is wanting her character history (somewhat) reflecting her publication history so much to ask for? The plane wasn't confusing as it was originally intended, it only became confusing when they rebooted it to never having existed. Until later writers of course changed their minds and brought it back when it made no sense to do so, and THEN it became confusing. Which is why hard reboots are an overall bad idea that inevitably lead to problems.

    I'm sorry, but I want a WW history that includes as much of the broad strokes of her many eras as it can. I loved Year One and Godwatch overall, but much like the New 52 and COIE, they start things over and prevent the major beats of the prior eras from happening, so it is considerably more difficult for her to have a "through line" in her history than it is for Batman or even Superman. I don't see what she's gained from losing all this stuff. Some bad stories, but she still gets stuck in those regardless, so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can see the usefulness of a jet versus being able to fly, depending on whether the jet has it's own arsenal, might be faster then her average flight speed, and is invisible to radar and other senses.
    Yes, it should have all of those things to justify being used occasionally. Or when she's carrying passengers.

    Really, a few years needing the plane and then keeping it as backup or letting Steve or somebody use it when she gains flight is really simple and concise.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Not everything has to be so casually discarded either. What is the plane doing exactly that is causing convolution and crowding?

    Putting it aside when she gains flight is what I've been saying. But she went a few years without flight and used the plane. Why is wanting her character history (somewhat) reflecting her publication history so much to ask for? The plane wasn't confusing as it was originally intended, it only became confusing when they rebooted it to never having existed. Until later writers of course changed their minds and brought it back when it made no sense to do so, and THEN it became confusing. Which is why hard reboots are an overall bad idea that inevitably lead to problems.

    I'm sorry, but I want a WW history that includes as much of the broad strokes of her many eras as it can. I loved Year One and Godwatch overall, but much like the New 52 and COIE, they start things over and prevent the major beats of the prior eras from happening, so it is considerably more difficult for her to have a "through line" in her history than it is for Batman or even Superman. I don't see what she's gained from losing all this stuff. Some bad stories, but she still gets stuck in those regardless, so...



    Yes, it should have all of those things to justify being used occasionally. Or when she's carrying passengers.

    Really, a few years needing the plane and then keeping it as backup or letting Steve or somebody use it when she gains flight is really simple and concise.
    I guess I just don't see what keeping it around adds. This isn't something vital like her origin or some of her relationships. If she's going to discard it after she gains flight, why not just cut out the middle man and have her fly from the beginning like she's been doing in most modern adaptations? What is it about the jet that makes it so it must be present from the beginning?

    Yeah it's considered "iconic". So was the swimsuit.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 04-07-2019 at 06:51 AM.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    You could ask Black CanaryÖ

    Attachment 80763
    Yes, THIS.

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I guess I just don't see what keeping it around adds. This isn't something vital like her origin or some of her relationships. If she's going to discard it after she gains flight, why not just cut out the middle man and have her fly from the beginning like she's been doing in most modern adaptations? What is it about the jet that makes it so it must be present from the beginning?

    Yeah it's considered "iconic". So was the swimsuit.
    To this day we still have people asking about it because it made it into Superfriends and the Lynda Carter show, and merchandise is still made of it, and it gets parodied/referenced in popular culture. It hasn't gone anywhere, why not have the source material reflect it and give a simple reason for it existing? We get questions like "why does she need the jet if she can fly?" and it's a dumb question with a simple answer to those who actually know her history. Modern adaptations also include the current movies (where she can neither fly yet nor has the plane) and the 2009 DTV where she had the jet).

    What is it about flight that we need it there from the beginning, why can't there be some progression in her abilities (I like t-shirt wearing New 52 flightless Superman in his early years for this same reason)? Funny you should mention the relationships, because the first reboot to get rid of the plane also did away with some of those due to decisions from editorial and Perez (Donna being the big one, Etta not being her best friend and Steve being made irrelevant were the others) and the franchise hasn't become any more stable as a result.

    Yeah, the swimsuit is iconic. It's also not entirely going away any time soon. The new costume isn't either, but both are popular. There's no reason she cannot have more than one costume, other DC heroes do.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    With the Jet why not have Steve have it? Just because she gains flight downs doesn’t everything has to leave. I mean both Batman and Superman still have funny elements in their comics. Another issue is why focus just only the magical side? Diana isn’t just magical. I mean you can do both.
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  9. #69
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    And then it promptly disintegrated. I would rather she get more use out of it before gaining flight, like her actual publication history. Its important for her to fly now, but I'm not so attached to the power that I need it by her first adventure when we could show off Amazon tech in the meantime.

    The recent con footage seems to indicate she won't be flightless for much longer.
    Hopefully that's true. Watching Justice League vs. the Fatal Five I was struck by how much the power of flight added to the drama of her battles.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can see the usefulness of a jet versus being able to fly, depending on whether the jet has it's own arsenal, might be faster then her average flight speed, and is invisible to radar and other senses.
    That was already the case. Phil Jimenez laid out those capabilities of the jet during his run.

    WW INVI PHIL.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    good idea. maybe the invisible jet is Diana's Fortress of Solitude or Batcave; a place she can go to put important stuff she needs. Make it big enough to be used as a temporary, tiny home when she needs to go away and be alone. Some people live in boats or small trailers. maybe she uses technology that allows her to make the jet invisible when she wants.
    That sounds like the Wonder Dome.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why can’t the Jet actually be able to transform into other things? Like it can be the wonder dome. Or better yet why not Diana be able to have her own dimension?
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by greymoon View Post
    Is it because they donít know much about her? Is it a character problem? Do they just suck at writing? What is it?Why canít DC find common ground in anything relating to WW? Itís starting to get extremely annoying. Her verse is a damn MESS and itís been this way for awhile. I feel like I canít read anything relating to WW anymore because there is not much consistency + the awful writing/art.

    They always half-ass everything relating to WW.
    Sometimes we just think they do.

    As an example, the recent JL vs Fatal Five animated has a scene that, at first glance, seemed out of character for Diana. However in the story it turned out to be exactly what someone needed to get over an emotonally crippling trauma.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    With the Jet why not have Steve have it? Just because she gains flight downs doesn’t everything has to leave. I mean both Batman and Superman still have funny elements in their comics. Another issue is why focus just only the magical side? Diana isn’t just magical. I mean you can do both.
    Yeah, Superman has a dog with his powers that wears a cape and friendly robot duplicates of himself, plus stuff like Mxy. I mean...it's silly, but superheros are inherently silly and fun. Serious stories can still result, but at their core they are fantasy stories for children and meant to be fun. I feel like if you take these too seriously it just ends up dumber than it was already.

    An invisible stealth jet is easier to modernize and take seriously (if we must) than the above examples. The artwork of Jimenez and Paquette already proves that. She can have a place for it in her history, but let Steve use it in the present or she can use it when she has multiple people she's transporting (like in the Orlando issues). Or if it has weapons and is mentally controlled, it can assist her in battle even while she flies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Hopefully that's true. Watching Justice League vs. the Fatal Five I was struck by how much the power of flight added to the drama of her battles.
    At this point it's anyone's guess how this will go. It seems we are getting rumors of the plane, flying or gliding on air currents. Or all of the above?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    To this day we still have people asking about it because it made it into Superfriends and the Lynda Carter show...
    It's not that it "made it into" those shows, the Jet (or Robot Plane as it was generally called) was canonically part of WW's brand at the time of both of those shows, and had been from WW's introduction clear through her post-Crisis relaunch.

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    It's not that it "made it into" those shows, the Jet (or Robot Plane as it was generally called) was canonically part of WW's brand at the time of both of those shows, and had been from WW's introduction clear through her post-Crisis relaunch.
    Yeah but the fact that that is the case resulted in the plane being part of the larger pop culture conciousness. So it's next to impossible to get rid of even when the comics get rid of it. So why not allow for it to exist and get use in her comics history?

    Its really not asking a whole lot.

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