Why do so many writers suck at writing WW

[SiegePerilous02]

Thank You! That is what I’ve been trying to say! If you let writers use the plane, then you might as well go back to pre-crisis powerless Diana!

She was hardly powerless. In some ways, Golden Age Diana was more powerful than subsequent versions, minus the flight

If you let writers use the plane, tell them they have to use it in flashback stories to her early days or in a supplementary capacity, not as a full blown replacement to her flight in current day stories. Where is this either/or stuff coming from?

[starlight25]

She was hardly powerless. In some ways, Golden Age Diana was more powerful than subsequent versions, minus the flight

If you let writers use the plane, tell them they have to use it in flashback stories to her early days or in a supplementary capacity, not as a full blown replacement to her flight in current day stories. Where is this either/or stuff coming from?

She can fly and have the jet. We can have both.

[Koriand'r]

And that was hardly the reason it was maligned, or far from the only reason.

Marston didn't have her fly and intended for her to use the jet. She got gradual power ups afterward. That's her actual history. We're not asking for something that didn't actually happen at the hands of her actual creators, so I really don't see why this is getting such resistance. Especially since NOBODY here is asking for her to lose the power of flight in present day stories, so the resistance seems really disproportionate and needlessly exclusive of parts of her lore.

I just think it should be reserved for another rendition of the character like in an alternate storyline, limited series or even the DCEU. Similar to what I said last week in a post about a powered down Wonder Woman, give it to a version that needs it.

[Angleman70]

She was hardly powerless. In some ways, Golden Age Diana was more powerful than subsequent versions, minus the flight

If you let writers use the plane, tell them they have to use it in flashback stories to her early days or in a supplementary capacity, not as a full blown replacement to her flight in current day stories. Where is this either/or stuff coming from?

I agree with you that the Golden Age version had WW with many powers that rivaled Superman. However, the silver age (minus the ‘Mod Version), was a mess. I don’t trust DC to keep Diana’s continuity accurate enough to keep her power of flight. Currently, it’s intact, but give it awhile and someone like Grant Morrison or Geoff Johns (just using them as an example) or someone else who don’t get WW or don’t care for her can ruin what George Perez set up so many years ago.

[AmiMizuno]

Unlike most editors there is no core list for them to follow. If you were a editor what important parts would you make sure writers shouldn't do?

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Unlike most editors there is no core list for them to follow. If you were a editor what important parts would you make sure writers shouldn't do?

This question honestly deserves its own page. XD

Lemme think.....

1. Must pass the Bechdel test
2. Your not allowed to destroy the island or kill a bunch of Amazons in an effort to 'raise the stakes' It doesn't make us take it seriously and frankly its tired.
3. You may not erase the previous supporting cast and start over from scratch. You may however try to persuade me on moving her somewhere else if you have a compelling reason and expanding on her cast.

[Vordan]

This question honestly deserves its own page. XD

Lemme think.....

1. Must pass the Bechdel test
2. Your not allowed to destroy the island or kill a bunch of Amazons in an effort to 'raise the stakes' It doesn't make us take it seriously and frankly its tired.
3. You may not erase the previous supporting cast and start over from scratch. You may however try to persuade me on moving her somewhere else if you have a compelling reason and expanding on her cast.

Good list. I’d add one other thing:
4. You have to use her classic villains throughout your run. They don’t have to be the focus and you CAN create new ones but you need to show you can do a good job with the classic ones beforehand.

[Pinsir]

1. Must pass the Bechdel test

Has this ever been an issue though? Its almost impossible for a piece of media with a female protagonist to fail the Bechdel test.

2. Your not allowed to destroy the island or kill a bunch of Amazons in an effort to 'raise the stakes' It doesn't make us take it seriously and frankly its tired.

I agree, the Amazons are just Red Shirts at this point.

3. You may not erase the previous supporting cast and start over from scratch. You may however try to persuade me on moving her somewhere else if you have a compelling reason and expanding on her cast.

This really isn't a problem exclusive to Wonder Woman though. Pretty much any new run on a major superhero will introduce a new supporting cast. Some characters are much more concrete of course, and usually Wonder Woman has her mother and the Amazons and currently she doesn't.

[Pinsir]

The issue with the plane is that it often conflicts aesthetically with Wonder Woman's current world. Its comes from a time when Amazon Island was more utopian than an island of primitives. You'd have to do a major tonal change for the plane to make sense, something you'd see in Morrison's work for instance.

[kjn]

Unlike most editors there is no core list for them to follow. If you were a editor what important parts would you make sure writers shouldn't do?

I'd myself would be quite hesitant to give lists of dos and don'ts to writers. If they're good and well-suited to the character, such lists will either be viewed as mistrust or hinder them from doing otherwise valid and good storylines; if they're not suited to the character such a list won't stop them from misusing the character or their world in some new and original way.

I would have lists of things that I wish writers would do, like include more queer themes, or develop Themyscira more (working with established Amazons first), or look for Diana as an agent of change and civilisation, or try to find old villains to bring back, and so on. But there I'd prefer to ask the writer to make a list of things they want to develop, and then I bring my list, and we compare and discuss based on that.

The issue with the plane is that it often conflicts aesthetically with Wonder Woman's current world. Its comes from a time when Amazon Island was more utopian than an island of primitives. You'd have to do a major tonal change for the plane to make sense, something you'd see in Morrison's work for instance.

That is a valid concern, but not an insurmountable one. Rucka's solution was quite elegant, in that the Amazons repaired Steve's plane, making it better than ever. Now, he immediately undercut his own solution by making the plane dissolve, but it showed the Amazons as superior artisans, just as they managed to work out all of the equipment in the plane as they studied it.

Or the plane comes from another source entirely than the Amazons. It seems like WW84 will bring the invisible plane into play based on the set photos, and there the Amazons didn't provide it.

Also, I vehemently disagree that the Amazons are "primitives". Maybe Azzarello depicted them as barbarians, but Rucka fully removed that depiction of them from the continuity. In fact, my main issue with Rucka's depiction of the Amazons was that we were shown too little of it.

[Pinsir]

That is a valid concern, but not an insurmountable one. Rucka's solution was quite elegant, in that the Amazons repaired Steve's plane, making it better than ever. Now, he immediately undercut his own solution by making the plane dissolve, but it showed the Amazons as superior artisans, just as they managed to work out all of the equipment in the plane as they studied it.

Or the plane comes from another source entirely than the Amazons. It seems like WW84 will bring the invisible plane into play based on the set photos, and there the Amazons didn't provide it.

I don't really get Rucka's invisible plane though. Why did they make it invisible? To by pass the the barrier or to hide its appearance as it exited the the island's waters? Maybe those clear pads magically lifted the plane up into the air as the Amazons lack the know how repair such an aircraft?

Also, I vehemently disagree that the Amazons are "primitives". Maybe Azzarello depicted them as barbarians, but Rucka fully removed that depiction of them from the continuity. In fact, my main issue with Rucka's depiction of the Amazons was that we were shown too little of it.

I'm being coy with my language by referring to them as primitives. They are pre-industrial though and that term has described them for nearly 40 years now, if not longer if you include the late Bronze Age stories.

[kjn]

I don't really get Rucka's invisible plane though. Why did they make it invisible? To by pass the the barrier or to hide its appearance as it exited the the island's waters? Maybe those clear pads magically lifted the plane up into the air as the Amazons lack the know how repair such an aircraft?

It flew. It carried its passengers safely to its destination. That counts as repaired in my book. It was invisible. That counts as better. Who cares about the why?

I'm being coy with my language by referring to them as primitives. They are pre-industrial though and that term has described them for nearly 40 years now, if not longer if you include the late Bronze Age stories.

Note that pre-industrial groups can be quite advanced in various ways. One way I'd like writers to do is to use the Amazons to challenge our prevailing narratives and attitudes about civilisation, what is advanced, and the relation between technology and society. Come to think of it, such a challenge would fit extremely well into Wilson's run, as a continuation of some of her post-colonial themes (which arguably aren't that developed yet).

Heck, I want to evolve the Amazons as nymphs of civilisation. They don't necessarily need modern technology as we view it for that, rather they need adaptability, being well-adjusted to their needs and environment, knowledge about organisation, sociology, and psychology, medical knowledge, and so on.

[SiegePerilous02]

Rucka's established that the Amazons had stuff like the Purple Ray, and Orlando went on to establish that Astarte journeyed to the stars and brought back technology for them to tool around with (the Ray even looked like it did in Earth One in that issue).* So the Rebirth Amazons are not pre-industrial and the plane would fit in aesthetically. I just don't get why Rucka got rid of it after one use. Maybe he only had the one story to tell in her origin (with the rest being focused on the villains) that he wanted to get flight in there before he wrapped up Year One. Flight really is something she should have gotten between Year One and the Lies (maybe we could have seen it in one of the chapters of Godwatch, which spans the entire 10 years)?

*Though I'd love to know how Astarte managed to leave the island, go to space, and find her way back to the inaccessible island.

[AmiMizuno]

This is why I like the idea is some of their tech should be advance but they still have the designs of Greco-Roman. Style. Maybe their tech should be more magic base.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

*Though I'd love to know how Astarte managed to leave the island, go to space, and find her way back to the inaccessible island.

Well if were going to count everything any writer says about the island as canon, then Snyder mentioned Jumpa the kangaroo and if its a sky kanga...