Can We Please Get The Old Harley Quinn Back?!

[Jokerr]

Will the real Harley Quinn please stand up!
Harley used to be such a great character. And her relationship with the joker was so entertaining, because in a very sick and twisted way, the joker actually cared for her. Not in the conventional sense of the word, the way one would care for his mother or sibling or partner. But in a very selfish way, Joker did care for the attention Harley gave him. And that gave a different dynamic to the character. Something other than his obsession with Batman.
And now? Well now, Harley Quinn is just kinda there...
She's just a quirky hipster version of what she once was.
I tried reading her solo series one time and barely got through a full story ark. It was just too much for me. Really who reads this stuff? What is the target audience? And what's up with the talking beaver?
But anyway...
It just kinda ruined her.
Harley Quinn never really went insane. She consciously and knowingly put on the act of the "ditzy girlfriend"
Which mean she was fully aware of all the atrocities she helped joker commit, but went along with it anyway. That alone makes her ever worse than the joker himself! My point is she is not a good person. She's not a hero, not even an antihero. She's a cold blooded killer. She's as bad as they come.
The whole idea behind Harley in the first place was to give the joker a female counterpart. A another sidekick.
Why does she need to be anything more? Without the joker Harley just loses her incentive to be Harley.
And can't broken characters just be broken. She was never meant to be anyone's role model. So why change her?
I would really like to hear your guys opinions on this.

[Vampire Savior]

I tried Harley Quinn comics and couldn't abide them. I just didn't find them entertaining or charming at all, but I know some people love them.

I think Harley was altered into being more of a hero because she's a young attractive woman with a lot of charisma and people loved seeing her when she came on screen. So DC turned her into something closer to a face, but to be fare, her creators, Dini and Timm, had already pushed things in that direction for quite some time. Personally, I prefer her as a straight villain, but I can't fault DC for using her the way they do, since it's proven successful.

I really miss her old design, which I think is much better than anything that came out of the New 52 for her. I know it creeps up here and there but I think it's a shame it's not her default look anymore.

[Pohzee]

No matter how much you want her back Mistah J, it ain't happening. You never treated her well and now she's moved on. Beat it puddin'!

[matthew]

She just hasn't had the right writer for a while. As much as DC wants to push Suicide Squad I'm not sure why they don't put their top talent on that book. On her solo book, I like Sam Humphries as a personality on DC Universe but his writing is always extremely bland and forgettable. Tom King's doing a good job with her on Heroes in Crisis but because of the story has to play the crazy angle much more than a focused book on Harley would.

[Ascended]

No matter how much you want her back Mistah J, it ain't happening. You never treated her well and now she's moved on. Beat it puddin'!

This.

I do miss the old costume (though I like the idea of her wearing a "theme" instead of a single outfit) and have really enjoyed the decades-long transition out from under Joker's influence. I disagree completely with the OP; Harley has never been better or more viable as a character than she is now.

[Jokerr]

This.

I do miss the old costume (though I like the idea of her wearing a "theme" instead of a single outfit) and have really enjoyed the decades-long transition out from under Joker's influence. I disagree completely with the OP; Harley has never been better or more viable as a character than she is now.

Please explain.

[Holt]

Please explain.

She was one of the most popular Halloween costumes in the U.S. recently. She's getting her own TV show and a spin-off movie, and her solo book is still going. These last few years have definitely been the biggest the character has ever had.

[Batknight]

I think Harley fundamentally doesn't work with the way she has been written for a while now. The problem is DC wants to have it both ways with her. They want her to be a strong, independent woman, who overcame her abuser and is now heroic. But they also want her to still be a crazy clown girl and who kills people and have a ditzy, funny, personality. These two things don't work together. In Batman: The Animated Series, her personality is clearly linked to her obsession with the Joker. She alters her personality, mental state, appearance to fit him in an attempt to 'save him' and drives herself insane for him after delusionally falling from him due to being manipulated in thinking he's a victim.

But whenever she's shown not to be obsessed with Joker anymore, she goes back to being regular Harleen Quinzel. Her mental illness is directly linked to her abusive realtionship. But in modern comics, this is not the case. Even after she's overcome her obsession, she still acts like Harley Quinn. She says she overcome the Joker, but she still acts, dresses, and maintains the identity she created for him instead of becoming herself again. And it always rings extremely false to me. The only time I think she's actually been written well was in Batman: White Knight, where she truly overcomes her abusive relationship and reclaims her old self. But that will never be the case in regular continuity, because it'd mean she couldn't be a crazy clown girl anymore who basically just a Deadpool ripoff, which wouldn't sell.

[Osiris-Rex]

She was one of the most popular Halloween costumes in the U.S. recently. She's getting her own TV show and a spin-off movie, and her solo book is still going. These last few years have definitely been the biggest the character has ever had.

Yes. don't mess with success. This is the Harley Quinn people like. Changing the character back to a previous version runs the danger of annoying the current fans and people losing interest in her.

[Robotman]

Harley is one of DC’s biggest cash cows and WB has a ton of money invested in her movies and animated appearances. There’s no way they could allow her to be an abused girlfriend with extreme battered spouse syndrome. Harley with the Joker is just part of her character arc. Once she’s free from him she becomes a much better character.

[Slim Shady]

I do have a soft spot for old Harley. Straight up villain. Joker's right hand. Full blown crazy. I enjoyed her in that early role.

But she's transitioned good. So I don't have much of a problem with her change. It's good for character.

And honestly, she just got too popular to remain a minor character/sidekick. She had a great design, big personality, and a good back story. When a new character becomes a hit like that, you almost have to push them.

[Scott Taylor]

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of all that money being made.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[king81992]

Harley could work as an anti hero or reformed villain but DC has mishandled her heel-face turn. She gets a free pass for because of the LOL Crazy and randumb card.

[Ascended]

Please explain.

Well, I figure the easiest proof is in the income statement. Harley makes more money as she is now compared to when she's just Joker's abused sidekick. That shows a higher level of engagement and interest, and the fact that her book has done so well for so long points to her long-term viability. She's more profitable than any DC property except Batman. That says quite a bit.

As for the details.....Harley's got a story that pulls on a pretty large segment of people and it's a story that *should* be told. Roy Harper being revealed to be a junkie is an oft-used example of social commentary done right in comics, and it illustrates the responsibility the publishers have (or can take up if they support CSR) to explore topics and issues that impact their readers. Harley is today's Roy Harper; recovering addict. In a world full of #Metoo, being able to use such a high profile character to deal with domestic violence (including the message that you dont deserve abuse even if you're a little twisted yourself) is of vital importance, if for no other reason than the mountain of money it's made (CSR is great but all bow down to the bottom line).

People talk about how she's become heroic.....and I'm a little behind on the book (as I am with most titles these days) but last I knew, Harley wasn't a hero, she was still a murderous, angry psychotic criminal. She just developed better taste in targets and is (usually) killing people who deserve it instead of innocent bystanders. But she's still got warrants out for her arrest, she's still under Waller's thumb in the Squad, and when she teams up with a hero (like Power Girl) there's usually extenuating circumstances that prevent the hero from hauling her ass to prison. The metatext that keeps her out of jail is no worse than what keeps Deathstroke, Punisher, or Deadpool running around free. By all rights, the heroes should be hunting all of those people down....but because those characters headline their own books and are popular the heroes happen to find better things to do.

Is she trying to be a better person? Yes. And she's succeeding in that. Which is why her story really works: people see a broken, flawed person with huge problems and they see that she was able to get out of her situation and get a second chance. She's still messed up but its now her own mess, which is a powerful message. But is Harley a heroic, noble, good person? No. Not even a little. Her character hasn't changed so much as her situation has. She's still the crazy lunatic who wears a certain persona for attention or to make people underestimate her, she'll still kill you for fairly minor infractions. But without Joker's influence she's bombing d-bag politicians instead of hospitals.

[kingaliencracker]

My favorite series with Harley was the Karl Kesel series from the early 2000's. I thought it was the perfect balance of Joker's sidekick and her independence as a character.

My problem with Harley overall, however, is that she wasn't intended in the beginning of TAS to be the Joker's girlfriend. Once they transitioned to that, it made the abuse at Joker's hands feel really wrong, which led to them making her antihero, which is even weirder because even though she was clearly abused by the Joker she did some pretty awful things both with him and by herself. So for me I don't find the character very redeemable as she's currently depicted.

Having said that, and as others have pointed out, they're not going to change the character back at this stage.