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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Advance Technology without the Magic Sphere

    With some people not liking the idea of the magic sphere how should the Amazons be able to have magic sphere? I always think the best way is the fact if they have to protected something from the outside wouldn’t it make sense to make sure that something just is locked. For example, Ares . Wouldn’t they want to make sure that not just swords are their only options ?
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  2. #2
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    I don't understand people's problems with the Magic Sphere. Is it the name that's too on the nose, or is the Amazons' ability to see inventions in the past or future and improve upon them considered stealing? Or something else?

    I'm willing to bet if it had a better name it'd be more accepted.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Are you thinking about me?

    My issue with the Magic Sphere is not really with the name or the concept, but rather what role it is to play in the stories and for Themysciran culture. If one wants technologically advanced Amazons, then I very much want it to be their own technology, developed by themselves; not copied from somewhere else. Otherwise the notion of having the Amazons technologically advanced in the first place is undercut.

    From a story standpoint, all the examples I've seen so far of use of the Magic Sphere is as a deus ex machina for information (but if someone has examples of the Sphere being central to the narrative of a story, feel free to point them out!). That's practically an invite to lazy storytelling, and unlike calling up a friend for help, you miss out on creating the personal interconnections within the DC universe, or get the little personal touches.

    Now, I have a rather strong personal vision of how I want to see the Amazons, but it's certainly not the only possible vision of them, and the Magic Sphere can certainly play a role for some versions of the Amazons. But in those cases I think it should be more than a source of free stuff.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Who doesn't like free stuff? lol If that was to me Kjn no, I wasn't aware of your feelings on the subject. I just want the Amazons to have advanced technology any way I can get it. The Magic Sphere seems plausible because it's so similar to storytelling devices we've seen before, like the mirror in Snow White or Hera's skrying pool in the New 52.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Oh, I certainly understand what you want Koriand'r. My vision of the Amazons doesn't depend on the Magic Sphere or high technology, but I can certainly understand those people who want high technology or like the Magic Sphere as a concept. In and of itself, the Magic Sphere is perfectly fine, my objection rather comes from how it is used to give the Amazons high technology and can

    One option is to simply make the Amazon society into a high technological one, but then you need to present it as that from the beginning. No languishing with amforas by wells, no fighting with ancient weapons unless a real good reason is given, and so on. Show the scientists and researchers, perhaps also the production. Show that these things are the result of the efforts of the Amazon society.

    Personally, I prefer a more artisanal take on the Amazons, similar to the one Rucka used in Year One. They might not have high technology as we think of it, but they are supernaturally gifted craftswomen, and anything they create with their own hands will have superior, exceptional, or supernatural properties. Like the invisible plane or the return of Steve Trevor's appendix. But that's neither here nor there.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I too would prefer them get the technology without the Magic Sphere. It always seemed like "cheating" on their part that they get to gaze into the future, and Athena just handed it to them.

    I'd prefer the goddesses provide the island and the immortality, but leave it up to the Amazons themselves to take care of everything else. Paradise Island can be weird on its own, with all sorts of hidden areas and secrets for them to discover and experiment with. They can find magical items and maybe a downed alien space craft from an ancient, extinct race that they extract their technology from. Post-Crisis had them gain it from alien tech, why not just give it to them from the word go?

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don’t mind the magic sphere. I think we can have it both ways. If Parade Island is generally near Black Sea. This could mean there are planes they could find some of our old tech. They learn how to use the magic tech and get information on what it was. I mean things can wash up on the island or the Amazons should be able to get some way outside paradise island. It can be balanced out
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  8. #8
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    At this point in time, nothing can be totally original in terms of how the amazons would go, but I agree that Amazons should at least develop their own tech (or any form advancement) on their own,

    OR

    give them all the same powers as WW or equal to hers physically or metaphysically (mystical abilities) , but limited in the island so we don't have a lot of WW's running around the DCU. The idea that PI is a paradise yet a potentially deadly place to try and conquer due to the inhabitants due to the mystical nature of the island is far more attractive to me than just tech advancement alone. I like the idea that, even if

    a) No modern weaponry (that can fire energy projectiles, etc.) will work in PI; once it enters the island parameter, it loses it's power source; the island sphere or mystical shield that also hides drains it's power automatically

    b) Amazonium is very potent that swords and arrows, etc. made from it it can slice against any form of metal armor and shields can protect the same

    c) PI has a no fly zone, as well; anyone who enters the island, gets grounded immediately

    If they are going to keep amazons in dark ages in terms of weaponry and don't give them super strength at least give them this advantage for amazon training to be special and not be easily outdone by modern weaponry. I mean, in the movie, if the Germans even had a machine gun and a few more people, that outcome would have not been believable, even if the weaponry was World War One era.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I feel Earth One tech might work. The Amazons tech is still mythical and yet advance. I would like it if the Amazons special weapons can kill Gods but it should be one of the few things that can work outside.
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  10. #10
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Personally, I prefer a more artisanal take on the Amazons, similar to the one Rucka used in Year One. They might not have high technology as we think of it, but they are supernaturally gifted craftswomen, and anything they create with their own hands will have superior, exceptional, or supernatural properties. Like the invisible plane or the return of Steve Trevor's appendix. But that's neither here nor there.
    Maybe just say that using the magic sphere well requires a skilled crafter to recreate what they saw properly. Perhaps in some cases simply say they got ideas from it and didn't simply copy what they saw. and of course since they are making it from what they can find on PI, they might replace certain things with magic stuff.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Maybe the magic sphere can work for the Amazons has a shield and they need to make sure this shield is well prepared. They need to get a few Amazons out to see what techs are out there. They take a few things and use the magical sphere to deconstruct them
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Maybe just say that using the magic sphere well requires a skilled crafter to recreate what they saw properly. Perhaps in some cases simply say they got ideas from it and didn't simply copy what they saw. and of course since they are making it from what they can find on PI, they might replace certain things with magic stuff.
    It still sits a bit dubious to me. I want the Amazons to be shown to be a healthy, independently evolved, and well-adapted society with long-term viability and sustainability. One part of that is that their tools—be they magical or technical or something else—should be their own. Once you remove innovation from the Amazons you diminish them.

    Because that's what the idea of them copying things they see in the Magic Sphere does: it removes their ability to innovate, even if the stuff they create as copies somehow are better. They should be able to invent the stuff and the tools that they need on their own.

    Maybe they don't need aeroplanes? That's fine. Or they do need them, and then they follow principles and look really dissimilar to ours (like Morrison did). That's also fine.

    You could still have the Magic Sphere or equivalent on Themyscira. But you need to be careful how it is used in-story to not diminish the implied capabilities of the Amazon society. If a writer has a really good story idea based on the Magic Sphere, by all means go for it. But I haven't seen any such story yet.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    How about this. The Amazons have to lead ever so often. This gives them more information and leads them to have the history of any country. All them need is either a book or some important object. For example some like money or book on the US. However, with the Amazons they can go to where they use to live
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 04-14-2019 at 07:08 PM.
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  14. #14
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I like what kjn has said about the magic sphere in its original concept as something that would diminish the Amazon's agency, intelligence, and their own architectural/engineering/design abilities. They should be at least several hundred years ahead of Patriarch's World in terms of technology for several reasons. It'll take a gifted writer to dream up the sci-fi aspects of the Amazons, and how'd they be remarkably different than in Man's World, but I absolutely believe it can and should be done.

    So, in my Wonder Woman work, I've been thinking of alternate uses for the magic sphere... perhaps it's a magical artifact used by Perez's Menalippe, in her role as oracle and priestess to the Amazons... or maybe it's technology an Amazon invented that seems indistinguishable from magic to the average mortal, but has an entirely different use than its historical power of peering into the past/future/outside world. (I've been trying to get my Morrisonian brain on for the latter when creatively thinking about its use and purpose.)
    Last edited by WonderScott; 04-20-2019 at 09:33 AM.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What if we have it be what it was in the movies the thing that keeps the Amazons hidden?
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