Would it bothering you if a villain transition to good guy without atonement

[king81992]

Gar and the Titans forgiving him defies logic. That issue where they sit and have coffee together and Slade says there was nothing personal (seemingly forgetting all about Grant) is pretty bad.

If Terra was evil, Slade still aimed her at them without much care. Screw him, he's evil.

The Titans forgiving Slade and acting like he was a good guy despite all of the terrible things he did to them was low key character assassination and (in my opinion)the start of the franchise's decline.

[SiegePerilous02]

The Titans forgiving Slade and acting like he was a good guy despite all of the terrible things he did to them was low key character assassination and (in my opinion)the start of the franchise's decline.

It coincides with Perez's departure. I think he was a bigger proponent for Slade being more villainous with slight redeeming qualities, not what he eventually become. The quality of the stories in general started to decline as soon as he left the first time. I haven't read much more than a couple years into post-Crisis, but it's definitely far less consistent and even outright bad (like the Hybrid, boy they sucked).

[Agent Z]

Cheetah's always been at war with herself though. Marston envisioned her as a character with two sides, good and evil, and WW has to try to reform her and free her of her evil self. And the tragedy is she keeps sliding back. So the modern version works very well because she's even more responsible for her current state and moral failings than mentally ill Priscilla Rich, and she has actual power now. She's still sympathetic, but years and years of making her generically evil didn't work outside of Perez, and even he didn't really solidly make a personal connection between her and Diana. So hers is a change for the better IMO, and one that still lends her to being increasingly monstrous. Dr. Cyber was similarly a non-character before her new tragic origin and kind of scary current incarnation. The WW writers still do need to make more use of unrepentant female assholes like Clea, Dr. Poison, Saturna, etc. to balance it out though.

The Ivy situation does annoy me, however. She can be sympathetic and has some abuse in her origins. But so does Two-Face, and they haven't taken away his lethal side that I'm aware. So do other male Bat-villains. Ivy is arguably the most powerful Bat-rogue, the only one who is truly independent and not tied up with a man, and can be as scary as the notable male ones. She's pretty much all we've got. She can have her Pet the Dog moments (they all do, even on VERY rare occasions the Joker), but freaking out about her killing some "meat sacks" who were okay with killing her is utterly ridiculous.

Last I checked, Killer Croc had his cannibalism retconned away and was in a Beauty and the Beast-style relationship with June Moon. And as far as Bat villainesses go, Talia is pretty much unrepentantly monstrous these days.

[SiegePerilous02]

Last I checked, Killer Croc had his cannibalism retconned away and was in a Beauty and the Beast-style relationship with June Moon. And as far as Bat villainesses go, Talia is pretty much unrepentantly monstrous these days.

Ok so Croc is sort reformed...anybody else? And have they softened him up to the point that he is afraid to kill people and would be ?
Talia is monstrous, but she's never been as independent as Ivy. She's still Batman's ex, and before that she was known for struggling over which man in her life to be loyal to. And now we swapped out one villainous woman for another, why can't we have more than one?

Ivy can be layered and still fall more on the evil side of the spectrum. There are degrees to these things. Something like that one issue of Dini's Detective Comics is too far (it was even OOC for how he himself normally writes Ivy), but BTAS hit the sweet spot. She reserves her sadism for those she feels wrongs the Green, can have a soft spot for the likes of Harley and children, and is callous with everybody else. And a control freak to the max. Making her afraid to kill anybody period is too much. Give Ivy her teeth back.

[Jim Kelly]

I could envision a story where a villain gets hit on the head and forgets who he is and then begins a new life as a hero. In fact, I know that kind of story has been done before. In that situation, you can't really hold his past bad acts against him--he's literally a different person. I think the way this story usually plays out is that he's faced with the crimes he committed before and is destroyed in some fashion by that realization.

[Agent Z]

Ok so Croc is sort reformed...anybody else? And have they softened him up to the point that he is afraid to kill people and would be ?
Talia is monstrous, but she's never been as independent as Ivy. She's still Batman's ex, and before that she was known for struggling over which man in her life to be loyal to. And now we swapped out one villainous woman for another, why can't we have more than one?

Ivy can be layered and still fall more on the evil side of the spectrum. There are degrees to these things. Something like that one issue of Dini's Detective Comics is too far (it was even OOC for how he himself normally writes Ivy), but BTAS hit the sweet spot. She reserves her sadism for those she feels wrongs the Green, can have a soft spot for the likes of Harley and children, and is callous with everybody else. And a control freak to the max. Making her afraid to kill anybody period is too much. Give Ivy her teeth back.

Clayface got reformed too.