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  1. #16
    BANNED HATEISFOREVER's Avatar
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    Nah he has legit super strength. Holding a bus up without much strain,the ferris wheel hold up as well. That scene is a spoiler. Hence why i didn't mention it. His speed both running and flight is impressive.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    I feel Billy perhaps has the tools to win, but not the experience, he's still exceedingly green even by the end of the movie. Also in terms of damage output he has nothing to compare to Thor with Stormbreaker at the end of Infinity war.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Actually, Stormbreaker Thor might be the only Thor that loses, depending on how fast Billy is. His axe can actually hurt him and has no worthy enchantment. Someone with modest super strength and blitz level speeds could probably either take it from him or just move his arm such that he hits himself in the face with it.

    I dunno that Billy is fast enough, but FoX-Men Quicksilver could, for example. The same strategy wouldn't work on Ragnarok Thor or Mjolnir Thor, so Pietro would lose.

  4. #19
    BANNED HATEISFOREVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Actually, Stormbreaker Thor might be the only Thor that loses, depending on how fast Billy is. His axe can actually hurt him and has no worthy enchantment. Someone with modest super strength and blitz level speeds could probably either take it from him or just move his arm such that he hits himself in the face with it.

    I dunno that Billy is fast enough, but FoX-Men Quicksilver could, for example. The same strategy wouldn't work on Ragnarok Thor or Mjolnir Thor, so Pietro would lose.
    Billy has flight speed, and running speed that all you see is a blur. Fox quicksilver is an unfair comparison considering time was in microseconds whenever he moved.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Billy has flight speed, and running speed that all you see is a blur. Fox quicksilver is an unfair comparison considering time was in microseconds whenever he moved.
    Yeah, I haven't seen the movie yet. My point is that a notion was being put forward that Billy doesn't have the damage output to hurt Thor regardless of speed. Which isn't really relevant because Thor is carrying a thing that can kill him just fine. I am not suggesting that Billy is fast enough, merely pointing out that *if* he can pull off a true speed blitz against Stormbreaker Thor he wins.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member rhyvurg's Avatar
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    Having seen Shazam, Thor takes this.

    Billy has no feats of reaction speed. Other characters do, he does not.

    His greatest showing of physical strength was holding up a city bus, he was visibly struggling with it and clearly sounded like he was strained when he talks. On the other hand he was holding the bus up by the windshield, when he caught it both hands were right on the glass, and that's how he held it up over his head. That is some Segata Sanshiro nonsense right there. Another Sahzam'd character had a possibly better feat of strength, but nothing like what Thor has done.

    Durability wise Sivana did heavily suggest magic works better against Billy than mundane force, so Thor should have a considerable advantage there, but it's inconsistent. Falling from maybe 30 feet seemed to cause Billy pain, with no magic involved.

    So, considering Billy might have inherited Superman's vulnerability to magic, has no combat speed showings, is very much a rookie and is very at the low end of super strength (Aquaman might be stronger actually), Thor should take this fight.
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  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyvurg View Post
    Having seen Shazam, Thor takes this.

    Billy has no feats of reaction speed. Other characters do, he does not.

    His greatest showing of physical strength was holding up a city bus, he was visibly struggling with it and clearly sounded like he was strained when he talks. On the other hand he was holding the bus up by the windshield, when he caught it both hands were right on the glass, and that's how he held it up over his head. That is some Segata Sanshiro nonsense right there. Another Sahzam'd character had a possibly better feat of strength, but nothing like what Thor has done.

    Durability wise Sivana did heavily suggest magic works better against Billy than mundane force, so Thor should have a considerable advantage there, but it's inconsistent. Falling from maybe 30 feet seemed to cause Billy pain, with no magic involved.

    So, considering Billy might have inherited Superman's vulnerability to magic, has no combat speed showings, is very much a rookie and is very at the low end of super strength (Aquaman might be stronger actually), Thor should take this fight.
    Aquaman is laughably stronger than "city bus" level.
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyvurg View Post
    Having seen Shazam, Thor takes this.

    Billy has no feats of reaction speed. Other characters do, he does not.

    His greatest showing of physical strength was holding up a city bus, he was visibly struggling with it and clearly sounded like he was strained when he talks. On the other hand he was holding the bus up by the windshield, when he caught it both hands were right on the glass, and that's how he held it up over his head. That is some Segata Sanshiro nonsense right there. Another Sahzam'd character had a possibly better feat of strength, but nothing like what Thor has done.

    Durability wise Sivana did heavily suggest magic works better against Billy than mundane force, so Thor should have a considerable advantage there, but it's inconsistent. Falling from maybe 30 feet seemed to cause Billy pain, with no magic involved.

    So, considering Billy might have inherited Superman's vulnerability to magic, has no combat speed showings, is very much a rookie and is very at the low end of super strength (Aquaman might be stronger actually), Thor should take this fight.
    I'm not saying Shazam beats Thor in response to this post, nor am I saying that Shazam has fully refined control (he's clearly quite clumsy at this stage), but I feel like him rushing at superspeed to cover Darla's mouth without splattering her all over the walls (either by sheer speed, or speed and mass, or something superpowers) is itself a feat of control at superspeed... the equivalent of catching a falling egg with a jet powered crowbar. A normal full sized adult can't stop on a dime like he can while maintaining dexterity like that.

    Reaction speed or not, he has fine control when he wants. He also caught Sivana's punch, and they have equal strength and speed (again, not saying he does that to Thor throughout the whole match, but these are superspeed hand-eye coordination feats).

  9. #24
    Mighty Member rhyvurg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    I'm not saying Shazam beats Thor in response to this post, nor am I saying that Shazam has fully refined control (he's clearly quite clumsy at this stage), but I feel like him rushing at superspeed to cover Darla's mouth without splattering her all over the walls (either by sheer speed, or speed and mass, or something superpowers) is itself a feat of control at superspeed... the equivalent of catching a falling egg with a jet powered crowbar. A normal full sized adult can't stop on a dime like he can while maintaining dexterity like that.

    Reaction speed or not, he has fine control when he wants. He also caught Sivana's punch, and they have equal strength and speed (again, not saying he does that to Thor throughout the whole match, but these are superspeed hand-eye coordination feats).
    Maybe, but I don't think that's the same thing as reacting to other super fast things, and Thor has some pretty good reaction feats.
    "Money and muscle, that’s what I want; to be able to do any damned thing I want and get away with it. Money won’t do that altogether, because if a man is a weakling, all the money in the world won’t enable him to soak an enemy himself; on the other hand, unless he has money he may not be able to get away with it."
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  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyvurg View Post
    Maybe, but I don't think that's the same thing as reacting to other super fast things, and Thor has some pretty good reaction feats.
    Sivana's punches were pretty much almost always at superspeed to some degree. Catching one needs superspeed reaction.

    But just to be clear and to reiterate what I said above, I never said Thor didn't have good reaction feats. I'm merely contending that Shazam has his own reaction and control feats, contrary to the claim that he does not have those feats on his own. I also said that Shazam having them doesn't imply that he beats Thor as far as I'm concerned with this particular topic, so again, I wasn't comparing the two of them for reaction feats.

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