The most evil of evil

[XPac]

Carnage. Though I think he is probably mentally unwell.

I think mental illness potentially lowers you on the evil scale since you're legally less accountable for your actions.

[Michael Watkins]

Psycho-Man thrives on the misery of others, so he developed technology to stimulate it.

but is that him or his particular culture? i'm sure that he just sees himself as an academic. his daughter was pretty twisted. but she, from her own perspective, was out for revenge.

Mr. Hyde is probably more demented than evil, but he so delights in the pain and injury he inflicts that I still think that he qualifies.

that's chemically-induced, irrc. he's certainly a sadist.

Selene thrills at consuming life, and terrifying her victims.

depends on who is writing. she consumes to survive. and from my recollection, she makes sure to remember the people that she's eaten. there's some twisted honor in that. she grew up in a much rougher era where it was kill or be killed, too.

Sebastian Shaw is not only ambitious and avaricious, he's vindictive, spiteful and ruthless.

eh. I have a hard time lumping him in with the others. I've read his origin story. he can be a brute. but he genuinely loved Chantel Lourdes. he considered Harry Leland to be a friend. he has defended other people. but his profession punishes weakness. and he's at the top of his profession.

Domammu simply is evil incarnate (or one form of it anyway).

sure. but that's more image than action. to the casual reader, Dormammu's greatest hits aren't that relevant. it's usually his pawns doing the evil.

[KOSLOX]

Red Skull

Magus

[Sandy Hausler]

Following the discussion about scary villains, I was curious about the most evil of the villains in the MU.

Bullseye is in the list, mainly because he kills for nothing but his own enjoyment. You can’t talk him down, reason with him. He gets a thrill out of it.

I would say the Red Skull is number 1. I mean, he's a Nazi.

[Michael Watkins]

I would say the Red Skull is number 1. I mean, he's a Nazi.

well, in fairness, there used to be a lot of Nazi rogues. the Skull's just the most well known. but Baron Blitzkrieg got a pass. and, for whatever reason, Baron Wolfgang von Strucker doesn't seem to command the same hatred. Mister Sinister actually exploited the war to do illegal experiments on the camp prisoners/victims.

[Haquim]

I'm going to have to add Mr. Sinister. While Apocalypse is a scary, spiteful, petty man, he ultimately believes that he is doing the best for mankind. And he is technically considered something of a cosmic source of balance, so he isn't entirely wrong.

Mr. Sinister is just experimenting on people because he wants to. I'm not entirely sure it's even about power or anything.

You do realize Apocalypse is basically the same as Red Skull, right?

We've seen what happens when Apocalypse wins: the world gets transformed in some sort of giant concentration camp and humans are led towards extinction.

P.S.

The Red Skull thinks he's doing the best for mankind too. And Mr Sinister as well. Fun fact, it was Apocalypse who transformed Nathaniel Essex into Mr Sinister and tasked him with some of his more gruesome experiments...

[milton75]

I think mental illness potentially lowers you on the evil scale since you're legally less accountable for your actions.

I'd say that's everyone (fictional and non-) considered conventionally "evil" tbh.

[XPac]

You do realize Apocalypse is basically the same as Red Skull, right?

We've seen what happens when Apocalypse wins: the world gets transformed in some sort of giant concentration camp and humans are led towards extinction.

P.S.

The Red Skull thinks he's doing the best for mankind too. And Mr Sinister as well. Fun fact, it was Apocalypse who transformed Nathaniel Essex into Mr Sinister and tasked him with some of his more gruesome experiments...

Red Skull is one of the few villains who flat out admits that they are evil though. So he doesn't necessarily get the "hero in his own story" excuse, like a Magneto or a Doom might.

[XPac]

I'd say that's everyone (fictional and non-) considered conventionally "evil" tbh.

I wouldn't say that was true though.

Skull could probably be considered mentally competent to go to trial. I wouldn't necessariy say that about say the Joker.

[The Overlord]

I think mental illness potentially lowers you on the evil scale since you're legally less accountable for your actions.

I do not think Carnage meets the legal definition of insanity, I do not think Carnage is unable to tell the difference between right and wrong, he can, he just does not care. Carnage is just a psychopath and a sadist, not someone who is criminally insane.

[CaptCleghorn]

Kate Bishop [/thread]

[Rosebunse]

You do realize Apocalypse is basically the same as Red Skull, right?

We've seen what happens when Apocalypse wins: the world gets transformed in some sort of giant concentration camp and humans are led towards extinction.

P.S.

The Red Skull thinks he's doing the best for mankind too. And Mr Sinister as well. Fun fact, it was Apocalypse who transformed Nathaniel Essex into Mr Sinister and tasked him with some of his more gruesome experiments...

Yeah, and Apocalypse truly, truly believes that he's doing what's best. He'll never admit that what he's doing is completely insane and will just makes things so much worse, while Sinister doesn't care. And yes, Apocalypse did ultimately create Sinister, but Apocalypse would say that he only created him and gave him some resources. Sinister was the one who kept going and going.

I guess when I think of someone being truly evil, I think there has to be some acknowledgement on their end that, yes, they are in the wrong, they just don't care. They don't just rationalize it away.

Note, this isn't to say that Apocalypse can't do some massive damage, this isn't to say that he isn't ultimately more dangerous than Sinister or the Red Skull because of his fanatical devotion to his beliefs, he's just a bit less on the evil scale.

In fact, I'd argue that this is why "less" evil villains often seem more dangerous than truly evil ones. Take Hydra!Steve over Red Skull; Evil Steve was able to attract followers, he was able to take over the world because of that, he was able to make a case for himself.

[Haquim]

Yeah, and Apocalypse truly, truly believes that he's doing what's best. He'll never admit that what he's doing is completely insane and will just makes things so much worse, while Sinister doesn't care. And yes, Apocalypse did ultimately create Sinister, but Apocalypse would say that he only created him and gave him some resources. Sinister was the one who kept going and going.

I guess when I think of someone being truly evil, I think there has to be some acknowledgement on their end that, yes, they are in the wrong, they just don't care. They don't just rationalize it away.

Note, this isn't to say that Apocalypse can't do some massive damage, this isn't to say that he isn't ultimately more dangerous than Sinister or the Red Skull because of his fanatical devotion to his beliefs, he's just a bit less on the evil scale.

In fact, I'd argue that this is why "less" evil villains often seem more dangerous than truly evil ones. Take Hydra!Steve over Red Skull; Evil Steve was able to attract followers, he was able to take over the world because of that, he was able to make a case for himself.

So you think that someone who wishes for genocide on a planetary scale like Apocalypse does, is "less evil" than someone like Sinister who experiments on people, often on Apocalypse say-so...

The Red Skull believes in his own fanatical beliefs (he's the quintessential nazi) as well, by your logic that makes him "less evil", then. Sinister fanatically believes his work will lead to the next step in human evolution and justifies his actions because of the "importance" of his work, so by your logic that makes him"less evil" as well...

Evil is a complex concept but you can't define it by claiming it depens on someone thinking of himself as a good person or not.

P.S.

I believe you are wrong when you claim that some people don't rationalize their actions. Everyone does, even sociopaths who just think they have the right to do whatever they want because what matters is themselves and themselves alone. People do as a rule not think of themselves as "evil". Your average real life corrupt corporate executive does not think of himself as evil even if he destroys thousands of work places because of a small gain margin he wants to make right now, pollutes the earth, gets whole communities destroyed. If asked and in a position of answering honestly he'll just tell you that's just how business work or that he's weeding out the weak keeping the System working.

[chamber-music]

The Red Skull is certainly up there. Other villains hate him (Doctor Doom/Magneto) and he is openly fascist/racist.

Arcade has certainly become more awful over the years.

[Michael Watkins]

Arcade just has influenza.

I genuinely believe that En Sabah Nur is mentally ill. He seemed deranged in his origin mini. The celestial reengineering probably pushed him over the edge. But he was talking to figments of his imagination.