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  1. #46
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Cap wasn't part of the original Avengers groups. And you know it was Janet van Dyne who came up with the name of the Avengers. It's weird that she isn't included in the "trinity" especially since unlike Hank who lost his s--t multiple times, Wasp kept cool, stayed strong, and was leader for an extended time.

    I tend to be democratic, by that I mean the latest is the same as the first. I don't think there's any "trinity" to the Avengers or even the Justice League (after all, neither Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman were even on the iconic cover of the first JLA story where they all fight Starro).
    The problem there is sexism. In the 60s, Janet was just Hank's sidekick and the token chick. It's only later on that she got the respect she deserves.
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  2. #47
    Son of Satan DevilBat66's Avatar
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    The most Avengery Avengers to me are..

    Captain America
    Hank Pym as Goliath
    The Wasp
    Hawkeye
    The Scarlet Witch
    The Vision
    Batman - Daredevil

  3. #48
    Mighty Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Tony Stark wasn't an Avenger for a significant part of Roger Stern's run (considered to be among the greatest if not the greatest) Avengers run. And he wasn't part of Under Siege, considered to be either the best or the top three best Avengers story.
    At the beginning of Stern's run Stark was suffering from the his worst of his alcoholism. About halfway though through he ended up on the West Coast team.

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Cap
    Hawkeye
    Vision

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    When I think Avengers, I probably think of these people first:

    Captain America (Steve)
    Thor
    Iron Man (Tony)
    Wasp (Jan)
    Giant-Man (Hank)
    Hawkeye (Clint)
    Vision
    Quicksilver
    Scarlet Witch
    Wonder Man
    Black Panther

    And no, the titles aren't interchangeable to me It's not because Marvel has another Hawkeye that she's automatically synonym with "Avengers" to me. Same with the others.

    EDIT: Forgot Jarvis! How could I forget Jarvis??
    Last edited by Mary Jay; 04-09-2019 at 12:19 PM.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
    #stopstealinghisstuff

  6. #51
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    then they weren't the Avengers.
    That...makes no sense.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Swamp Thing 2099's Avatar
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    Steve Rogers
    Thor Odinson
    Tony Stark
    Hank Pym
    Janet van Dyne
    Edwin Jarvis
    Simon Williams
    Clint Barton
    Natasha Romanoff
    Pietro Maximoff
    Wanda Maximoff
    Vision
    Carol Danvers
    T'Challa
    Jennifer Walters
    James Rhodes
    Luke Cage
    Angelica Jones
    Vance Astrovic
    Jessica Jones
    Jessica Drew
    Hercules
    Bobbi Morse
    Scott Lang
    Jack Hart
    Roberto Da Costa
    You are my favorite thing, Peter. My very favorite thing.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
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    I think West Coast Avengers tossed the notion of who is an Avenger and
    who is not out the window.
    Marvel pretty much wanted a second Avenger title on the stands and decided
    to add characters into both books who they probably would not have if only one book existed.
    From there is was easy for Spider-Man and Wolverine and others to join as more books got
    placed on the monthly schedule and a need for a bigger roster.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    West Coast Avengers still featured many classic Avengers characters on the roster like Iron Man, Hank Pym, Wasp, Hawkeye, Wonder Man, Quicksilver and Vision.

    I think the post-Dissembled New Avengers is when the anyone can be a Avenger notion really kicked in. Avengers stopped being a superhero club with a charter and chair person. Avengers became a brand name in which any group of heroes could just band together and call themselves Avengers regardless of if they had a history with the other Avengers or not.

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    That...makes no sense.
    you are boisterously confused.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    you are boisterously confused.
    If you think Tony Stark is the only Avenger that counts and that the team isn't worth reading without him, then the one who is boisterously confused is you.

    You can like Tony Stark all you want, and you can say that you only read Avengers with just Tony in it. That's fair. But that doesn't give you any ground to stand on to judge the other Avengers.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    If you think Tony Stark is the only Avenger that counts and that the team isn't worth reading without him, then the one who is boisterously confused is you.
    did you just put words in my mouth? how lame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    You can like Tony Stark all you want, and you can say that you only read Avengers with just Tony in it. That's fair. But that doesn't give you any ground to stand on to judge the other Avengers.
    twice. that's bordering on libelous. it's Tony's team, tony's family home, and tony's money. they wouldn't have been able to form the team w/o him. that makes him the most avengery avenger.

  13. #58
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    ... it's Tony's team, tony's family home, and tony's money. they wouldn't have been able to form the team w/o him. that makes him the most avengery avenger.
    You can make the claim that they wouldn't have been able to form the team without The Hulk. Taking responsibility for him was one of their core, uniting factors for the titles' first couple of years (it was THE core factor for the first half dozen issues). That doesn't make him The Most Avengery either.

    And on other topics, the word "libelous" does not fit the context of the exchange you had. "Incorrect" perhaps, but not "libelous".

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    A lot of the Avengers could of funded the team since many of them are wealthy. Avengers mansion being one of Tony's former homes is also irrelevant. The Avengers have operated out of different bases before. Tony was just the first to offer up his house and money to back the group. Ant-Man and Wasp probably could of financed the group and used their own base as the groups headquarters.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    And on other topics, the word "libelous" does not fit the context of the exchange you had. "Incorrect" perhaps, but not "libelous".
    It's actually neither. This is an opinion. Saying Tony Stark is "favorite Avenger" and most interesting Avenger is an opinion and a valid opinion (just as valid as anyone else saying someone else is their favorite Avengers).

    Saying that Tony Stark is the Avengers a la Louis the 14th "I am the State" is fan insanity to the max especially when you have many great Avengers runs and great Avengers stories without Iron Man in it. And it's an absolute disservice and discredit to the ethos of the team, banding together to fight threats that no one person can.

    Tony Stark is as essential to the Avengers as the other founders, no more and no less.

    And in any case, Tony didn't exclusively fund the Avengers all the way across their history. The Avengers used to be a government run organization for a big chunk, and it was "your tax dollars at work".

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