Who do you consider to be most "Avengery" Avengers??

[chamber-music]

I've never really been a fan of the idea that Avengers should just be made up of the most powerful characters. I feel what made the book work was the mix of line up. Characters with different powers, different personalities and backgrounds.

[Sutekh]

I've never really been a fan of the idea that Avengers should just be made up of the most powerful characters. I feel what made the book work was the mix of line up. Characters with different powers, different personalities and backgrounds.

Definitely. While I'm a big fan of some of the more powerful Avengers (Thor, Sersi, Moondragon, Monica Rambeau), I also like a lot of the powerless ones (Captain America, USAgent, Hawkeye, Swordsman, Black Widow) and the mid-tier ones (Wasp, Hank Pym, Machine Man, Living Lightning, Stingray).

A well-written story should be able to find something useful for all levels of ability to contribute, just as it was Hawkeye who punked the Grandmaster in one of their more memorable encounters (after he'd demonstrated that he could curb-stomp heavy hitters like Thor and Iron Man with little effort).

Too much in one direction or another, though, and it does feel weird. I remember one lineup with a bunch of mostly powerless sorts like Hawkeye and Echo, teamed up with Dr. Strange, and it felt like he was completely wrong for that group (and the writing wasn't up to the task, constantly nerfing his abilities to make the rest seem more relevant, and, in the process, making Earth seem ripe for picking by Dormammu or Shuma-Gorath, since the 'Sorcerer Supreme' had apparently forgotten how to do magic, but that's more a bad writing problem than anything else, as The Defenders regularly had people like Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer standing alongside folk like Hellcat, and didn't feel the need to dumb down the Surfer or sorcerer's abilities...).

[davew128]

Definitely. While I'm a big fan of some of the more powerful Avengers (Thor, Sersi, Moondragon, Monica Rambeau), I also like a lot of the powerless ones (Captain America, USAgent, Hawkeye, Swordsman, Black Widow)

US Agent has Class 10 superhuman strength.

[chamber-music]

Definitely. While I'm a big fan of some of the more powerful Avengers (Thor, Sersi, Moondragon, Monica Rambeau), I also like a lot of the powerless ones (Captain America, USAgent, Hawkeye, Swordsman, Black Widow) and the mid-tier ones (Wasp, Hank Pym, Machine Man, Living Lightning, Stingray).

A well-written story should be able to find something useful for all levels of ability to contribute, just as it was Hawkeye who punked the Grandmaster in one of their more memorable encounters (after he'd demonstrated that he could curb-stomp heavy hitters like Thor and Iron Man with little effort).

Yep

I'm far more interested in stories in which the heroes are the underdog and have to overcome some large threat to win. If you have a team of just the most powerful characters than that takes the stakes out of the story unless the foe is someone they simply can't overpower to win or the heroes are just dumbed down to the point they are ineffective against villains (which happens a lot to really powerful heroes).

Good hero vs villain battles can also be about strategy. There are characters with skills and abilities that make them capable of taking down more powerful foes in the right circumstances.

There are good comic stories about characters like Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Mr Fantastic, ect outsmarting a villain that are equally as enjoyable as a old fashioned hero vs villain fight for me.

[DrNewGod]

Yep

I'm far more interested in stories in which the heroes are the underdog and have to overcome some large threat to win. If you have a team of just the most powerful characters than that takes the stakes out of the story unless the foe is someone they simply can't overpower to win or the heroes are just dumbed down to the point they are ineffective against villains (which happens a lot to really powerful heroes).

Good hero vs villain battles can also be about strategy. There are characters with skills and abilities that make them capable of taking down more powerful foes in the right circumstances.

There are good comic stories about characters like Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Mr Fantastic, ect outsmarting a villain that are equally as enjoyable as a old fashioned hero vs villain fight for me.

Hawkeye as the last Avenger standing against The Collector was always a fave of mine

[TheRay]

Well, Steve Rogers wasn't the Captaian America of the All-Winners Squad, so I'll go with the Invaders.

Peace

Oh, you mean The Spirit of '76. I think that only happens after Cap is presumed dead in 1945, so did he not serve on the team until that happened?

[Shadowcat]

Captain America
Wasp
Monica Rambeau
She-Hulk
Thor
Iron Man
Hank Pym
Vision
Hawkeye
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Wonder Man
Beast
Black Panther
Captain Marvel
Hercules
Black Widow

[Nomads1]

Oh, you mean The Spirit of '76. I think that only happens after Cap is presumed dead in 1945, so did he not serve on the team until that happened?

Not according to What If #4. That story, which is considered the only, I think, canonical What If story, shows that the AWS were formed after the disbanding of the Invaders, after Hitler's death, around the time Steve and Bucky were considered KIA. The American team was already formed with the Spirit of '76 and Fred Davis already standing in for Cap and Bucky. William Nasland, the Spirt of '76 was soon killed and Jeff Mace, once the Patriot, became the Captain America of the All-Winners Squad for the rest of its existence. Thus, Steve Roger's was the only Captain America of the Invaders, and he was never a member of the AWS.

Peace

[TheRay]

Not according to Wikipedia, which places Captain America on the Squad, at least when it was published under the Timely Comics banner.

[Electricmastro]

As Jarvis states in Roger Stern's great "Faithful Servant" (Avengers #280):

Jarvis: "There have been so many Avengers over the years. Some stayed so briefly, it is hard to even remember them. Hercules, the Beast, the Falcon, Hellcat, poor Ms. Marvel...I tried to serve them all well, to make their stays as pleasant as possible. After all. The life of an Avenger is not easy."

The truth of the matter is that the Avengers were this team that was a dumping ground for Marvel. Characters not big enough to sell their own title, not interesting enough in their own corners (supporting casts, rogues gallery) and who were always second banana to the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. So there's nothing really Avengers-y about anyone. They took in villains, some of whom reformed (Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow) and others who didn't (Sandman of Spider-Man fame, yeah) and then you have Hank Pym.

So "Avenger-y" depends completely on popularity and sales? I thought it depended on, well, saving people.

[strathcona]

Not according to Wikipedia, which places Captain America on the Squad, at least when it was published under the Timely Comics banner.

When the book was originally published in '45 or '46, yes, it was meant to be Steve Rogers. But it has long been retconned to originally be Spirit of '76 and then Patriot. Steve never served on the All-Winners Squad in continuity.