House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[Omnihallows]

you do not believe that it is a little hypocritical, that moira try to avoid the rise of homo novissima as dominant species? I say, mutants are the next step, and some humans have tried to stop it, so it's okay that mutants replace humans, but another species doesn't mutants ?? I want to try to understand

[Jackraow21]

I’m going to assume there were long periods of them being put in stasis, and also other technologies in play which prolonged their already lengthened healing factor-enhanced life spans. Moira clearly also got Logan’s healing factor somehow via transfusion, hence the line about her having the same blood type.

[bell]

Anyone find it weird that Xavier face is not show, only in pass or flash backs? Or did i miss something.

[Jackraow21]

No, people have noticed that. I think it’s important, though not sure why yet. There’s so much more to explore and quite a few unanswered questions. Looking forward to Dawn of X to get some of the answers.

According to Hickman, if this Phase 1 is successful there is a Phase 2 where it all comes crashing down, whatever that means. Could mean the villains start misbehaving and/or Moira gets killed and resets everything. Who knows? What I like about Hickman’s writing is that just when I think I know where things are going, they go someplace unexpected. That’s fun.

[hawkeyefan]

you do not believe that it is a little hypocritical, that moira try to avoid the rise of homo novissima as dominant species? I say, mutants are the next step, and some humans have tried to stop it, so it's okay that mutants replace humans, but another species doesn't mutants ?? I want to try to understand

I think it is hypocritical in a way. The justification to fight against homo-novissima is the same one that humans use to justify their fight against mutants. It removes any claim mutants have to being the next step and for that to somehow matter.

Which then makes it solely about wanting to protect one’s own kind. Which may be understandable in and of itself....but then the question becomes “why are the humans wrong for doing the same thing?”

[bell]

It keeps bugging me, going to re read all and see if I can find a answer to this.

[Jackraow21]

I think it is hypocritical in a way. The justification to fight against homo-novissima is the same one that humans use to justify their fight against mutants. It removes any claim mutants have to being the next step and for that to somehow matter.

Which then makes it solely about wanting to protect one’s own kind. Which may be understandable in and of itself....but then the question becomes “why are the humans wrong for doing the same thing?”

Well when you are the species being supplanted, it’s only natural to bend the argument to suit your side, right? I mean, if I was a mutant I would be bought into the case that the world is rightfully ours. That it is our natural right to evolve and dominate the planet, and basically the humans are cheating/defying nature by self-evolving through technology.

[hawkeyefan]

Well when you are the species being supplanted, it’s only natural to bend the argument to suit your side, right? I mean, if I was a mutant I would be bought into the case that the world is rightfully ours. That it is our natural right to evolve and dominate the planet, and basically the humans are cheating/defying nature by self-evolving through technology.

Sure. It’s an interesting dynamic. But both homo-superior and homo-novissima are born of humans. What is “natural” or “artificial” when it comes to life? What is the “correct” next step?

Of course mutants would say they are, and rationalize it to fit their need. The post-humans would do the same.

I mean....the gist of what the Librarian was saying to Wolverine and Moira sounded very much like old-school Magneto talking to some flatscans, didn’t it?

[Devaishwarya]

I think it is hypocritical in a way. The justification to fight against homo-novissima is the same one that humans use to justify their fight against mutants. It removes any claim mutants have to being the next step and for that to somehow matter.

Which then makes it solely about wanting to protect one’s own kind. Which may be understandable in and of itself....but then the question becomes “why are the humans wrong for doing the same thing?”

It is hypocritical from the most direct and basic perspective but...
Trying to "Avoid" the rise of Homo Novissima is different from humans "Extinguishing" all already-existing mutant life. How the two come into being...one by 'deliberate intervention' the other "because...Nature" are not the same things.

[Lapsus]

I still dont get it why genetic manipulation makes mutants obsolete when is actually the solution of the problem.

I hate mutants so i make mutants to go a war against mutants.

[cranger]

I still dont get it why genetic manipulation makes mutants obsolete when is actually the solution of the problem.

I hate mutants so i make mutants to go a war against mutants.

It seems arbitrary but it is about control. History has shown that anything that can be seen as a dividing line, to create classes, will be used by those in, or seeking, power. Some humans in the Marvel universe fear a world where some mutant decides to enslave humans or at least treat them as a lower class of civilisation. Just because some people are born better does not mean they will seek the same goals, in fact they will probably try to overthrow what came before.

[RachelGrey]

I still dont get it why genetic manipulation makes mutants obsolete when is actually the solution of the problem.

I hate mutants so i make mutants to go a war against mutants.

because you can change yourself and give yourself powers without being replaced by the more advanced version of humanity.

It's not really about survival because humans and mutants could easily co-exist peacefully and advance together, they are technically the same race. It's about a selfish desire for control.

The mutants haven't had political power and the humans are afraid of mutants getting political power. It's about who has the power to decide how things operate on the world. Baseline humans are desperately afraid that mutants will gain a political power advantage and end up dominating the political discourse on Earth.

Rachel Summers / Mother Askani went into the future where Apocalypse had created his mutant empire that enslaved humans and enslaved mutants who didn't look superior (like BlaqueSmith) or had minor powers. Rachel united all of the human and lesser mutant tribes under one banner. Eventually some of Apocalypse's own followers joined the Askani Rebellion too. The Askani Order preached equality and unity of the races and that they would fight against all forms of oppression. So technically in the shattered remnants of the future Rachel was able to overcome the divide between humans and mutants and unite them. She even taught humans meditation techniques that gradually made them minor telepaths. (NOTE: It's possible that Rachel was using her remaining Phoenix energy to slowly turn everyone into some form of mutants so everyone would have an equal chance, she was guiding humans to the point that they could use minor telepathy and telekinesis even when they weren't mutants)

[myownlittleusername]

you do not believe that it is a little hypocritical, that moira try to avoid the rise of homo novissima as dominant species? I say, mutants are the next step, and some humans have tried to stop it, so it's okay that mutants replace humans, but another species doesn't mutants ?? I want to try to understand

If you survive you win, and no one wants to lose.

Basically, just let them fight it out. (Apocalypse was right)

[JKtheMac]

Anyone find it weird that Xavier face is not show, only in pass or flash backs? Or did i miss something.

It is possible he has damage on his forehead after Moira gave him a second look. Or even after he forced her to show him. I feel like showing the initial shock and Moira suggesting in her notes that she may need to show him again, hints at this. Perhaps we will see a flashback of this at some point in DoX.

Something provoked this status quo change. Otherwise why now?

[JKtheMac]

you do not believe that it is a little hypocritical, that moira try to avoid the rise of homo novissima as dominant species? I say, mutants are the next step, and some humans have tried to stop it, so it's okay that mutants replace humans, but another species doesn't mutants ?? I want to try to understand

I think this cuts to the themes Hickman is developing. Post humanity is not relatable to us. We might recognise the direction we are travelling in our culture, but there is a future shock element to a merged Human/Machine culture. The mutants reflect the desire to stay in touch with nature. Moira is not so much trying to defeat humanity as stop the inevitable drift towards an inhuman future.

Like I said in the issue thread I don’t really see the story as being about humans Vs mutants.

I still dont get it why genetic manipulation makes mutants obsolete when is actually the solution of the problem..

It isn’t a mutant vs genetic manipulation choice. It is natural selection vs directed evolution. The genetic manipulation sets up a cycle of change that leads to a very inhuman place. The post humans don’t feel very human.