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  1. #3571
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    I forgot Iceman was supposed to die at the end of Second Coming. That's a shame.

  2. #3572
    Mighty Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Kyost also wanted to kill Iceman and Rachel, but Carey wouldn't allow it.
    Really Rachel? She was in another galaxy

  3. #3573
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Really Rachel? She was in another galaxy
    You really think that would've stopped Yost?

    "Cable was right!"

  4. #3574
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Yes, but without knowing she was a mutant in her first life, she didn't have anything to do with them. They were not an important part of her life....she lived a pretty normal life.

    It wasn't until her crazy experience being reborn to her second life, and then seeing Xavier on TV that she realized she was a mutant herself, and then took an interest in mutant affairs.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she remember in life 2 having briefly met Xavier in life 1? Wouldn't that support the idea that they existed in life 1?
    She remembered meeting Xavier in life 2. She did not go to Oxford in life 1. (edit: she did meet Xavier in life 1, but the chart does not say where. I inferred that her comment about having met him at school would be a reference to life 2) Xavier probably still existed, he just may not have manifested, or he may have but did not find others. Apocalypse, Destiny, et al could still have existed. Or maybe not, maybe that is looking at time too linearly, and maybe each life had alterations to the past as well, but that notion is not really central to this idea.

    The point is not whether mutants were an important part of her life, but that she clearly had no idea that something like mutants could even exist until late into her second life. I find it very hard to believe that if mutants had been running around in her first life like they were in all her later lives that she would not have heard that about them and considered that already early in her second life, and even her second life mutants seem to still have not been as prevalent (as they are in some later lives).

    Therefor, my theory is that the difference in the mutant population in her different lives is due to the idea that the gene was activated differently as the environment was different in different lives, that the 'evolution' was a response. Another further theory is that Moira's role is an evolutionary one to ensure that the evolution succeeds.
    Last edited by cranger; 08-15-2019 at 09:10 AM.

  5. #3575
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Really Rachel? She was in another galaxy
    Initially they were going to bring Alex, Lorna, and Rachel back in time for the event, and Rachel likely would have died back in her timeline as she would go with X-Force given she had firsthand knowledge. So I am glad 1) they were told no, and 2) she didn't come back in time for it.

  6. #3576
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Exactly, that observer effect thing she talked about. There is no way mutants would not have been pretty common knowledge by the time she died in her first life given how prominent they were in all her other lives.
    Its as good a theory as any, but it is totally in the gaps. I suppose it could be supported by the fact that she had met Xavier way before he went on TV, so we don't actually see a timeline that would tell us she couldn't have made the X-Men happen by observing, but essentially it wouldn't add much to the story.

    By a kind of reduction to inconsequence argument: By the time we get to the fourth lifeline we are into familiar territory and everything after that means it wouldn't really change the story.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  7. #3577
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Its as good a theory as any, but it is totally in the gaps. I suppose it could be supported by the fact that she had met Xavier way before he went on TV, so we don't actually see a timeline that would tell us she couldn't have made the X-Men happen by observing, but essentially it wouldn't add much to the story.

    By a kind of reduction to inconsequence argument: By the time we get to the fourth lifeline we are into familiar territory and everything after that means it wouldn't really change the story.
    It kind of comes down to what Xavier has planned that caused Orchis to change its mind about the projection on mutant dominance. If Hickman has something up his sleeve, he is probably dropping some hints already.

  8. #3578
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    Not really read x-men for a long time - I'm a big Cable fan (and look what's happened there....:-( ), but I'm so enjoying this, think it's fab. Having just read Life 3.0 (what could happen with general AI), the Mars Trilogy (how to create a new social structure on a different planet), The Gone World (can the future be changed & what happens when it is - fab book BTW) and Sea of Rust (what happens when AIs become sentient) - has Hickman been reading the same books ??!!!

    Anyhoo, really looking forward to the rest of the series - and hopefully, some OM Cable - bit unfortunate about Fallen Angels tho'.

  9. #3579
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    She remembered meeting Xavier in life 2. She did not go to Oxford in life 1. (edit: she did meet Xavier in life 1, but the chart does not say where. I inferred that her comment about having met him at school would be a reference to life 2) Xavier probably still existed, he just may not have manifested, or he may have but did not find others. Apocalypse, Destiny, et al could still have existed. Or maybe not, maybe that is looking at time too linearly, and maybe each life had alterations to the past as well, but that notion is not really central to this idea.

    The point is not whether mutants were an important part of her life, but that she clearly had no idea that something like mutants could even exist until late into her second life. I find it very hard to believe that if mutants had been running around in her first life like they were in all her later lives that she would not have heard that about them and considered that already early in her second life, and even her second life mutants seem to still have not been as prevalent (as they are in some later lives).

    Therefor, my theory is that the difference in the mutant population in her different lives is due to the idea that the gene was activated differently as the environment was different in different lives, that the 'evolution' was a response. Another further theory is that Moira's role is an evolutionary one to ensure that the evolution succeeds.
    Ah, okay, yeah...that's a good point. Life 1 should have still had mutants as a known thing in the world, and she would have been aware of them before seeing Xavier on TV as an adult in life 2.

    I do think her increased role in things tends to increase the impact that mutants have on the world, but I don't know if that quite addresses the issue, so you could be on to something about it being the observer effect.

  10. #3580
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    While she would have known about mutants in her first life she would not have thought/understood what they were or that she herself was one until her second life.
    Also, while they may have been around, they did not become prevalent and known for what they were until Xavier gave the world a name...mutant. And Moira as we know in X-Lore, is an integral part of that "coming out".
    It's because of her and Xavier, that the world knows mutants exist.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 08-15-2019 at 10:58 AM.

  11. #3581
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    House of X #6 solicit
    THE INEVITABLE FUTURE.
    The revolutionary tale of Mutantkind’s rise comes to a conclusion that will lay the groundwork of the X-Men’s stories for years to come!

    Powers of X #6 solicit
    The revelatory tale of Mutantkind's fall comes to a conclusion that will lay the groundwork of the X-Men's stories for years to come!

    Did everyone already talk about how fucked this is?

  12. #3582
    The Son of Suns Clairaudient Freedom Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    If I had a pound for every time someone pulled out "show don't tell" to critique comics or movies I would be a rich man. That maxim has nothing whatsoever to do with what you are referring to. It is almost meaningless in a visual medium. You are talking about exposition.

    'Show don't tell' is a technique of prose. It often gets misused to talk about exposition but Hickman is a master of exposition so it doesn't really apply here.
    A narrative should not over-rely on exposition.
    Top Artists Acuña, A Adams, Allred, Asrar, Bradshaw, V Bridges, J Campbell, JS Campbell, Caselli, Charest, C Chiang, Coipel, TS Daniel, Darrow, A Davis, Derington, Dodson, G Frank, Googe, G Ha, T Harris, Hawthorne, C Henry, A Hughes, Immonen, Larraz, Lupacchino, Maguire, Manapul, P Medina, McGuinness, McKone, J Molina, D Mora, SG Murphy, Opeña, B Peterson, Pichelli, I Reis, A Robinson, Rude, Shaner, K Shannon, RB Silva, Skroce, Sook, Sprouse, Torque, D Williams, Woods!

  13. #3583
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clairaudient Freedom Soldier View Post
    A narrative should not over-rely on exposition.
    I kinda feel like its justifiable here. There is ALOT to get through and the narrative would have been made weaker for not the amount of exposition we've been getting in these issues. Hickman is jumping into this; under different circumstances, a writer would have been building up to HoX and sprinkled in these tidbits along the way but we didnt have that and its fine.

  14. #3584
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    I don't like the direction of HiXman. The plot of the future is too much and hardcore sci-fi and what about X-men social representation in all of this mess??? It's not Star Strek Hicky!
    Many of you have too much hype for this event which DESTROYS what X-Men are! Yes and it's only the beginning!
    Dawn of X has ZERO stories tied to mutants common problems. They are more in space than on Earth!
    Wake up!Are you blind X-fans to the point you can't see they distorted completely the X-men message and adventures! Boycott this shit!
    It's not because we don't have the spotlight for so long on the X-franchise that Marvel need to let Hickwoman doing this shit!
    On other forums people are furious and are less blind by this event. Are everyone dumb on CBR to think HoX/PoX are wonderful? Seriously?!
    Do you have a critical thinking here?

  15. #3585
    Fantastic Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    I have two critical thinkings. One in that HoX is great, and the other is that PoX is great.

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