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  1. #6481
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If thats the case then why even have the Five and their complicated dance if Sinister could be used to produce all the clones?
    A Sinister produced clone just to get the process rolling, a mutant Five grown clone for all subsequent resurrections

    Moira knows that relying on Sinister for their breeding farms leads to the Chimeras and the pitfalls of the X2 timeline

  2. #6482

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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    There should be an entire section for the three Mastermind sisters (incl. Pixie)
    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I'm still not really sure I like Pixie being a Mastermind child. Or her mom being an actual pixie.

    Unpopular opinion, but this retcon is one of the stupidest things to happen in recent memory it didn't even make sense in the context of the story. Pixie is randomly related to Jason Wyngarde and a fairy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The Resurrections can only occur bc of the Five. Hope, Goldballs, Eva and Elixir were all around but Proteus was dead. How exactly was he brought back and able to even be apart of this process? He was seen in the astral plane in Soule's Astonishing X-men but he wasnt back among the living when that ended. How was he resurrected with no body? HoX mentions that he is constantly being transferred to Xavier husks but thats only a possibiiity now bc he along with the Five clone Xavier with Proteous making the egg viable. If he was dead to begin with, then he couldnt have been used to make his initial egg viable

    Speaking of which, how can an Xavier husk utilize Proteus' powers? If a Cerebro backup of Proteus' mind is transferred into the body, I dont see how it has the omega level power of Proteus

    Im also assuming this is not the same Proteus that was defeated in AXM and on the Astral plane but the last recorded backup of him, which would have been pre-DPS prior to his death?

    One more thing, it seems very inefficient that Proteus still burns out when he inhabits a physical body. Why hasnt they created a modified body to contain him? Why havent Josh and Hope been able to stabilize his mutation so that this is possible?
    There's a couple ways, I always thought Proteus was more displaced than actual dead, and even if he were, the X-men have cloned themselves before Xavier specifically. As far as Xavier is concerned, hasn't it been mentioned several times but more specifically during NXM, Xavier's genome hosts a variety of abilities many of which Cassandra was able to utilized. I interpreted as Xavier's body acts as the closest donor for Proteus, he might not even be able to host Proteus long-term but his body is the most capable and similar to Xavier's even if not capable of hosting him forever. Plus, Hickman also mentioned the possibility of the Five being interchangeable.


    Again the above might not make any sense, but in short I figured they could reconstitute Proteus before discovering Xavier's body would be the most suitable, and once attached Proteus was able to utilize his powers even if not to the highest degree. But he never seemed like he couldn't harness his full abilities when he's possessed victims in the past.
    Last edited by Celestialbodies; 11-18-2019 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #6483
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambit2051 View Post
    Hickman's overarching theme for his run on the X-Men seems to be Nature vs Nurture...LITERALLY. His emphasis on Organic vs Technology is a clear analogy of that as well from the looks of it.

    You have Mutants, apparently being created by nature itself as the next step in our NATURAL Evolution. So Humans created technology in order to fight the Natural order. Humans decided to get hands on with their own development by Nurturing Technology forward to deal with what they see as an immediate threat to their species. These Humans have seen Natures Mutants and they DO NOT AGREE, basically.
    Darwin's theory is that mutations are integrated in the genetic pool if they give an advantage to the individual with this genetic trait. So far, the mutants didn't have many advantages as their differences caused them marginalization and persecution. Until now because, now they can stay among themselves. Now, in this situation, will they have an advantage? Maybe.
    We certainly fight the Natural order: we don't need Angel's wings, we have planes, we don't need Cyclops' eyes, we have laser devices. We use machines everyday to overcome our limitations. As individuals, we are certainly pleased by these possibilities. As a species, will we be very fortunate? There are downsides to these gizmos. Neanderthal man lasted on Earth much more than the current species…
    More, also the mutants use techonology, they aren't all Nature…
    "… something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  4. #6484
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Before we get too sucked into the myth of the Natural World we should perhaps consider that the overarching themes are more related to cultural outlooks and identity. There is absolutely nothing natural about the resurrection process that the Mutant's are using for example. Or the gates, or the way they produce food, or anything else they do on Krakoa. Krakoa wasn't really 'Naturally occurring' either. Although this Krakoa has a divergent history from the one we have seen in past continuity so we can't be sure. It certainly isn't a creature/island created in the 40s by nuclear testing for example, as seen in the recent "Journey Into Mystery: The Birth of Krakoa". If this is still canonical then we would need a retcon to explain it (not that I expect one)

    There is certainly a Nature / Culture dynamic at play, expressed through a more organic process of perpetuation and innovation compared to a technological one, but what exactly constitutes "natural" given that our philosophical outlook as a species is cultural, is a far bigger question that I don't think Hickman is seeking to address.

    Hickman is turning the cultural basis of Mutantdom away from a human cultural outlook towards a more alien one. He is treating the X-Men as a Silver Age concept again. Using Science Fiction themes to make them an understandable and identifiable other.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 11-19-2019 at 05:07 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  5. #6485
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If thats the case then why even have the Five and their complicated dance if Sinister could be used to produce all the clones?
    If you think about it the 5 no longer need Sinister. They have the DnA of most important mutants and the means to bring them back. Going forward it may be a problem to lose him, but at this point he can be replaced.

  6. #6486
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIGHT View Post
    If you think about it the 5 no longer need Sinister. They have the DnA of most important mutants and the means to bring them back. Going forward it may be a problem to lose him, but at this point he can be replaced.
    Do they? I was under the impression that Sinister maintains his DNA database and leverages that whenever they need to resurrect someone

  7. #6487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Do they? I was under the impression that Sinister maintains his DNA database and leverages that whenever they need to resurrect someone
    Yeah it wouldn’t make sense him giving them al his database. Even if they try to create their own database there are 16 million mutants to ressurect. They will need him for the immediate future.

  8. #6488
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    There is nothing stopping the other council members from just taking his DNA database and killing him afterward. He got everything started and stuff but I don't see why Beast or any other smart mutant can't collect dna samples from here on out. Its not like Sinister is the one doing the cloning. Also I doubt anyone on the council would mind getting rid of him....

    Just send a dozen telepaths to read his mind like a book and find out where everything is, secure it, then get rid of him. For redundancy / a back up plan, just start a new database. Most mutants are located on Krakoa after all and to be honest only about 200 or so mutants even matter. The rest are just cannon fodder it pains me to say.

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  10. #6490
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIGHT View Post
    There is nothing stopping the other council members from just taking his DNA database and killing him afterward. He got everything started and stuff but I don't see why Beast or any other smart mutant can't collect dna samples from here on out. Its not like Sinister is the one doing the cloning. Also I doubt anyone on the council would mind getting rid of him....

    Just send a dozen telepaths to read his mind like a book and find out where everything is, secure it, then get rid of him. For redundancy / a back up plan, just start a new database. Most mutants are located on Krakoa after all and to be honest only about 200 or so mutants even matter. The rest are just cannon fodder it pains me to say.
    Except thats not how things work. Right now they are working with a relative level of ethics. Sinister is playing nice so there's no reason to take him out and/or steal his database. You are talking about a hypothetical thats not likely to play out

    Most of the mutants that need to be resurrected are cannon fodder but that doesnt matter to the narrative. Over 16 million mutants are dead and need to be brought back and Sinister is key to that happening. If Xavier and the rest of Krakoa were satisfied with their current low numbers, than none of this would even matter but they are playing the long game and increasing their numbers for future generations to come

  11. #6491
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Maybe? Chip and Hickman both write a damn good Namor and Namor has connections to both FF and the X-Men.

    I'm more happy that this probably means that what chip is doing will be directly referenced in one of Hickman's works.

  12. #6492
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Except thats not how things work. Right now they are working with a relative level of ethics. Sinister is playing nice so there's no reason to take him out and/or steal his database. You are talking about a hypothetical thats not likely to play out

    Most of the mutants that need to be resurrected are cannon fodder but that doesnt matter to the narrative. Over 16 million mutants are dead and need to be brought back and Sinister is key to that happening. If Xavier and the rest of Krakoa were satisfied with their current low numbers, than none of this would even matter but they are playing the long game and increasing their numbers for future generations to come
    Sure, Sisnister is palyin ball atm so there is no need to rock the boat. However we know he betrays Moira in a prior life (If i recall correctly) The only thing they should be doing atm is their own dna backup. When they get dna to resurrect a mutant a copy should be made then and there.

  13. #6493
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    How many mutants actually ARE back anyway? We can assume the resurrections started as far back as 6 months prior to HoX when the population boom activated the Orchis protocol.

  14. #6494
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Who knows. I think we even know the population of Krakoa. I would be surprised if more than 10,000 were brought back.

  15. #6495
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIGHT View Post
    Who knows. I think we even know the population of Krakoa. I would be surprised if more than 10,000 were brought back.
    Honestly I think it's more than that now. The Five originally had the limit of resurrecting 1000 mutants a week but the data pages have noted the the more they use their powers the more mutants they're able to bring back. If we take that original number and add it to the 6 month period that's 24000 mutants brought back by the time HoX starts and thats not counting the mutants who accepted Xavier's offer to join Krakoa.

    Mind you about 200 mutants are being resurrected daily.

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