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  1. #5701
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Humans update AIs and use their new tech to augment themselves. And then augmented humans can update AIs even further. It's a symbiotic relationship, and both are a huge threat to mutants.

    Humans can only pose so much of a threat without AI intervention.

  2. #5702
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    How did Moira and Logan stayed alive for one thousand years ?

    What exactly was what Moira never saw as the real enemy for mutants ? Super humans ?

    Life 6 basically went the same as Life 9 with the creation of Nimrod at some point and the Man-Machine supremacy taking over the planet, with the exception of Moira not joining Apocalypse, but instead teaming up with Logan and surviving for a thousand years ?

    So even after seeing and knowing all she learned from Life 6, she still failed to prevent the creation of Nimrod once again in life 9 ?

  3. #5703
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wall-Crawler View Post
    How did Moira and Logan stayed alive for one thousand years ?

    What exactly was what Moira never saw as the real enemy for mutants ? Super humans ?

    Life 6 basically went the same as Life 9 with the creation of Nimrod at some point and the Man-Machine supremacy taking over the planet, with the exception of Moira not joining Apocalypse, but instead teaming up with Logan and surviving for a thousand years ?

    So even after seeing and knowing all she learned from Life 6, she still failed to prevent the creation of Nimrod once again in life 9 ?
    The machines are a distraction for the real problem: homo novissima. So first the machines and next the novissima

  4. #5704
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wall-Crawler View Post
    How did Moira and Logan stayed alive for one thousand years ?

    What exactly was what Moira never saw as the real enemy for mutants ? Super humans ?

    Life 6 basically went the same as Life 9 with the creation of Nimrod at some point and the Man-Machine supremacy taking over the planet, with the exception of Moira not joining Apocalypse, but instead teaming up with Logan and surviving for a thousand years ?

    So even after seeing and knowing all she learned from Life 6, she still failed to prevent the creation of Nimrod once again in life 9 ?
    In Life 6 it looks like Nimrod was just a drone belonging to the Librarian

  5. #5705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wall-Crawler View Post
    How did Moira and Logan stayed alive for one thousand years ?

    What exactly was what Moira never saw as the real enemy for mutants ? Super humans ?

    Life 6 basically went the same as Life 9 with the creation of Nimrod at some point and the Man-Machine supremacy taking over the planet, with the exception of Moira not joining Apocalypse, but instead teaming up with Logan and surviving for a thousand years ?

    So even after seeing and knowing all she learned from Life 6, she still failed to prevent the creation of Nimrod once again in life 9 ?
    This is my issue that I raised last page, her sixth life should have been followed by what is her tenth life after learning that mutants real threat is from augmented humanity. The machines needed to be dealt with yes but as was stated in POX 6 by the librarian, the machines are a distraction. That’s the whole point of life 10 and the establishment of the mutant nation, to finally address the threat of humanity head on

  6. #5706
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    “But what happens when humanity stops being beholden to its environment? When man controls the building blocks of biology and technology… Evolution is no match for genetic engineering.What good was one mutant adapting to its environment when we could make ten super men?”
    Apocalypse has been augmenting and re-engineering his body with celestial tech for thousands of years. Genetic engineering isn’t exclusive to humans. I don’t understand why mutants would sit back and rest on their natural abilities while humans surpassed them.
    Last edited by Vegan Daddy; 10-09-2019 at 07:02 PM.

  7. #5707
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Apocalypse has been augmenting and re-engineering his body with celestial tech for thousands of years. Genetic engineering isn’t exclusive to humans. I don’t understand why mutants would sit back and rest on their natural abilities while humans surpassed them.
    mutants did it with Chimeras

  8. #5708
    Astonishing Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Apocalypse has been augmenting and re-engineering his body with celestial tech for thousands of years. Genetic engineering isn’t exclusive to humans. I don’t understand why mutants would sit back and rest on their natural abilities while humans surpassed them.
    I'm thinking that Moira's true goal is create Homo novissima superior, establishing a symbiotic relationship between mutants and machine before humans have a chance to do so, or at least to better compete with them. I think this may be what is happening between Xavier and Cerebro. Since Apocalypse has some experience in technological augmentation he may be aligned with her.

  9. #5709
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    Quote Originally Posted by abarry126 View Post
    I understand all of that, but why was she still trying to prevent the rise of the machines, when she learns in her sixth life that the machines were a distraction from the real threat - augmented humanity. That revelation should have informed all her lives going forward, but in life 7 and especially nine she is still trying to stop the rise of the nimrod. It makes sense if lives 6 and nine are switched, and right after she finds out that humanity is the true enemy, she lives the current 10 life where she gets Magneto and Xavier on board with actively trying to stop humanity, not the machines
    Man plus machine. First she tried to eliminate the machine. Limit the threat to just humans. Didn't work, the machines are inevitable, built somehow, somewhere every time.

    Then she tried to take over swiftly, so there wouldn't be time for the machines to be built. But humans had other weapons (heroes) that defeated Magneto. So that was out.

    Finally she tried just wiping humanity out altogether, with Apocalypse. But Nimrod still gets built. Mutants still lose.

    It was a carefully sequential attempt to solve the problem in front of her. It just never works.

  10. #5710
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    mutants did it with Chimeras
    Mister sinister did this!

  11. #5711
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    Man plus machine. First she tried to eliminate the machine. Limit the threat to just humans. Didn't work, the machines are inevitable, built somehow, somewhere every time.

    Then she tried to take over swiftly, so there wouldn't be time for the machines to be built. But humans had other weapons (heroes) that defeated Magneto. So that was out.

    Finally she tried just wiping humanity out altogether, with Apocalypse. But Nimrod still gets built. Mutants still lose.

    It was a carefully sequential attempt to solve the problem in front of her. It just never works.
    I really think a bit problem with what Moira is trying to do is she's trying to have mutants take over which is the wrong perspective to look at it. Mutants are a part of the world, not something to be better than others. Hell, it's kind of ironic that the prospect of mutants not inheriting the Earth basically infuriates Moira, yet she's perfectly fine with attempting to inflict that on the others who call Earth home.

  12. #5712
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    Still no answer to how Moira and Logan stayed alive for a thousand years though

  13. #5713
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    Just finished the series. It's nice to see Hickman back at Marvel.

    The good
    He always has great ideas. It's a neat trick pushing two opposing ideas at the same time -- mutants (and natural selection) are the dead-end, and yet in the present mutants look like an active threat to replace humanity instead of just being "hunted and oppressed" again. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes.

    He also told a complete arc, and on time. I'm not being snarky, I had serious doubts that he was capable of that. I hope he keeps it up in the main title.

    The meh
    Not sure what the benefit was to splitting this into two titles, other than to justify re-using whole sections of books.

    On the one hand, Moira ends up escaping Life #6 because the Librarian is disturbed about being destroyed and uploaded into a "Titan", because he's not sure that's really being alive. On the other hand, Prof. X is using Microsoft System Restore on X-Men to create copies of them when they get smushed, and acting like they're just the same people. Maybe those two things aren't *exactly* the same, but I'm not sure why one is disturbing and the other isn't.

    Having great ideas is not the same as having in-depth knowledge. The plot point about the future X-Men going after the search index instead of the actual information... it's not the worst computing fiction I've seen (this is still the winner), but if you don't know how something works, it's not a good idea to write in detail about it. In fact even if you are an expert, it's not a great idea, a lot of Hard sci-fi is incredibly boring. Just be vague and write well enough to be convincing.

    The bad
    He has great ideas, but he needs to spend more time showing, not telling. I mean you have page after page of infographics and Mutant-pedia articles explaining things, then I turn the page and some blue bald person is doing it all over again. Less text, more subtext.

    Some people think Hickman's bad at characterization and dialogue. I don't agree, he's shown his chops with Thor, Spider-Man, Nick Fury, Valeria, etc. but he's definitely not always trying. I don't know why Cyclops is talking about paradigm shifts, he sounds like a douche. Nimrod manages to have more personality than half of the living people in these books.

  14. #5714
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wall-Crawler View Post
    Still no answer to how Moira and Logan stayed alive for a thousand years though
    Logan's healing factor could be strong enough to make him live that long. Old Man Logan was a different case because his healing factor was failing for a long time.
    As for Moira it is implied Wolverine's blood helped her live that long
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 10-10-2019 at 07:32 AM.

  15. #5715
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    people stay fixated on that but we dont need answers to how they lived that long. There's enough evidence to reasonably deduce our own answers without it being spelled out and frankly it doesnt matter as thats a deadend timeline thats over with

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