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  1. #6136
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Exactatiously...that frakkin dream was practically non existent since Fraction and Utopia....ie for decades.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  2. #6137
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormultt Divine View Post
    I sort of get it but to be fair, the 'dream' has been getting lit up for the last few years, All Hickman did was put the final nail in...with severe force.
    There's still a future for x-men though, one that looks very interesting.
    maybe, mutants were on the brink of extermination like twice. Thanks a lot Wanda and Inhumans.
    So the dream really seemed distant, but I never thought they would just kill it

  3. #6138

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    The dream been dead longer than Jean was for a time.
    Give it up, guys!

  4. #6139
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    It's like the X-Men made it impossible to print Marvel Superhero collectible trading cards now. How would you align them? Super Heroes? Super Villains?

    On that note, I miss my 1990s collecting days. Sure it was in the Philippines and they were bootlegs (available in 3-Peso packs of 3 cards on substandard materials, compared to the real one I got free from a Gambit action figure). But it was an enjoyable time of my childhood-puberty.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  5. #6140
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    how it doesn't change everything?
    Because the X-Men will likely still be fighting for a world that hates and fears them?

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Now we know that both Charles and Magneto are broken because of Moira. Everytime Charles talked about his co-existence it was pure crap that he never believed.
    Xavier went beyond everyone to do his own shady things, every interaction of him, moira and magneto have to be all reframed
    How has coexistence been removed? How is it crap that he never believed?

    I agree that the dynamic between Moira and both Xavier and Magneto is cast in a new light. I don’t think it’s quite as drastic as you’re making it. I don’t think they’re “broken” so much as they’ve been subtly manipulated. But it’s not like they’ve been manipulated to retire and open a B&B.....what they’ve been manipulated to do suits them.

    So the question is exactly what is Moira up to and why?

    As for Xavier and doing shady things....really? The past 25 years of the book have basically been a parade of Xavier’s Shady Secrets. If anything, this story shows that at least some of those things may have been due to strain put on him by Moira and her secrets.

    Xavier is walking away from this event far more clean than I had expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    He never believed on his dream after meeting Moira
    Where does it state that?

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because as Spirit said, retconning Xavier to be a complete hypocrite about preaching co-existence while completely knowing everything was going to go down the tubes paints the entire existence of the X-Men in the tenth life as a sham.
    But....they’re working toward coexistence. Differently than before, yes, or at least using several approaches at once, but it still seems to be the goal.

  6. #6141

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    We are gonna get more cute moments like this


    Who needs the rest of the MU tbh

  7. #6142
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormultt Divine View Post
    Who needs the rest of the MU tbh
    You certainly don't. And that desire to push the message of the innate inimicality between the X-Men and the rest of Marvel will likely be taken care of when the "Marvel vs. X-Men" event comes along in 202X.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  8. #6143
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    You certainly don't. And that desire to push the message of the innate inimicality between the X-Men and the rest of Marvel will likely be taken care of when the "Marvel vs. X-Men" event comes along in 202X.
    Don't jinx it like that. It may actually happen...

  9. #6144
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    anti-HiX-Men crowd is actually more oppressed than the gamers.
    They do seem to melt in the same way
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    what we got was them lighting Xavier's dream up like a candle and dancing around the ashes.
    I bet "dancing in the ashes" of one man's dream is preferable to "dancing" in the ashes of your murdered people. We can ask Polaris
    GrindrStone(D)

  10. #6145
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    Because change scares people, it always has, and it always will.

    Some of us welcome the new direction because it means that the entire line is going to tell new stories that haven't been tried before.

    Whomever thought that the New Mutants would tell the story of a mission to space to gather allies for the new nation of Krakoa.

    Whomever thought that the X-books would actually do an entire book that is actually centred on the members of the Hellfire Club. Mind you I have always wanted this so I am super happy about it. It may not be called Hellfire Club, and it's called Marauders, but come on, it's about Emma, Kate, and Sebastian manoeuvring around each other to influence trade world wide. It has Kate Pryde dressing in a Red King Pirate outfit and looking better than ever, along with Emma Frost rotating fashionable business suits from issue to issue, it's going to be awesome.

    To me this is a natural evolution of mutants toward uniting together and the growing pains of trying to form a country and be acknowledged as a country by the humans of the Earth. They are still trying to get along with humans, they are just doing it differently than in the past and they are proactively standing up for themselves instead of re-actively standing up for themselves.

    But it is a big change in direction, it's similar to taking the Genosha era and centering the entire story on the nation of Genosha rather than at the School in the United States.

    I think some people feel that the X-Men will never be heroes again, whereas I think they will go on a lot of missions where they are heroes, they might even do it in a way that the Avengers have never done in the past, I could see a 2 or 3 issue arc where the X-Men are called to go on a mission at the behest of the United Nations and Krakoa is asked for emergency support aid someplace in the world. The United Nations decides to take advantage of the fact that Krakoa is a member nation and ask them if they would send out a response team to assist in a global disaster zone.

    I am kind of finding the discussion getting a bit exhausting now, I get why some people don't like the new direction I really do, the problem is that I will never agree with them and I realize I will never convince anyone of my point of view either.

    This is why one poster said we have reached an impasse, everyone has taken their side and dug in on their opinion and it's getting harder and harder to find common ground with each other.

    I like the new direction, I like what Hickman has done, I like the amazing new stories that he is going to tell. I love the idea that I can read a book where frigging Apocalypse is protecting Rictor while they take down a threat together. Hickman is making Apocalypse ship-able with Rictor, Moira, and others, whoever thought that would ever happen. Whoever thought I would see an upcoming comic where Apocalypse is looking super fine in a business suit going to world wide political conference with Erik and Charles.

    Whoever thought I would see the day where I want like 9 different miniseries covering the different lives of Moira X and to eventually have all the mini series collected together in an omnibus edition. Jonathan Hickman if you are reading this I want an entire 12 issue mini-series about life 8 and 9, especially about life 9. Give me the greatest romance ever written in Marvel Comics, the story of Moira X and Apocalypse!
    That's exactly the point

  11. #6146
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    In my overactive imagination, "Marvel vs. X-Men" will comprise of the X-Men taking on all non-X-Men Marvel IPs in a plot-mandate existential conflict. It will see the X-Men exterminate all non-mutant life in the MU setting to ensure eternal survival of their race. Then immediately the mutants start literally dropping dead for no reason until everybody's passed on. End of "Marvel vs. X-Men."

    Which will then immediately segue into "Marvel Meta," a special storyline wherein all Marvel and X-Men characters find themselves in a meta setting and confronting the writers of the previous event, and the various editorial offices. Here they discover to their despair that their omnicidal battle before was simply done under editorial mandate as a medium of entertainment (doubly so for the mutants since their stories of regular near-annihilation, Krakoan ascendancy and hope-spot collapse were being written by flatscans of all people, who can write that their powers cannot harm them as writers and editors, to their added frustration).

    From there, the arguments of the Marvel and X-Men characters with the comic representations of their IRL creative teams (who will identify themselves as the TRUE "ONES-ABOVE-ALL") will be intercut with interview snippets from past Marvel and X-Men creators. Then Stan and Kirby appear, now fully-realized Marvel characters themselves, and they will mention how their lazy concept for mutants in the first X-Men stories (to avoid writing origins for everybody) demonstrates their (to the mutants) lack of investment in the franchise, leaving it to greats like Claremont (whose idea that the X-cast could grow old and retire were shot down by the rest of Marvel to maintain the SLIDING TIMELINE). And the "Marvel vs. X-Men" bit? Merely a demonstration to the casuals of the mutant characters at their most powerful, and a good gesture to the "nasty" X-readers who get off on making non-X-Men Marvel fans feel bad. Cue more despair from the mutants, created to cater to the shifting reader interests, first from rooting for the underdog, then the supremacist-minded isolationists, but ultimately rendered moot by one new shift in direction after another.

    Fortunately Walt Disney comes in with Mickey, they being other "realized" facets of the ONES-ABOVE-ALL like Stan, Kirby and Ditko. He'll somehow broker a new accord between the creators and the characters for a re-balanced setting status quo. After all, there are CHILDREN out there who must be introduced to the X-Men anew...as part of the MCU. All this will be manifested through Moira X's "Life 11." And so, the franchise reinvention that began with 2016's "Secret Wars" and "ANAD" is completed less than a decade later.

    Following this reboot, all Marvel characters will awaken their "off-story medium awareness," wherein once out of a comic book's plot, they become aware that they are characters whose adventures are being followed by readers, so that they can react and reply to fan mail, like the Fantastic 4 did in their #11, but made regular, consistent, and possibly serious. And I lost my train of thought at this point.

    Well that's my most charitable thoughts on Krakoa at the moment, as far away from my "Warhammer-40K Chaos Cult" comparisons in my head.

    I'm a mad man, aren't I?
    Last edited by Londo Bellian; 10-13-2019 at 09:38 PM.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  12. #6147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    You certainly don't. And that desire to push the message of the innate inimicality between the X-Men and the rest of Marvel will likely be taken care of when the "Marvel vs. X-Men" event comes along in 202X.
    Minding their own business on Krakoa doesn't mean they need to fight everyone.
    if there's a fight, the Avengers started it. *shrugs*

  13. #6148
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Check my randomness above your post. What's your opinion?
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  14. #6149
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The closest we've come to the dream being dead in the last 15 years was "Mutant Hitler" Cyclops. This is even more extreme, and people are on board with it. That blows my mind.
    To compare cyclops with hitler is one of the most stupid things i read in a long time, great work!!

  15. #6150
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reis9999 View Post
    To compare cyclops with hitler is one of the most stupid things i read in a long time, great work!!
    Not my words. That was Charles Soule.

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