House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[Lucyinthesky]

Oh, and I wouldn’t say the New Mutants/Magneto situation was a negative either.

I agree.

Gabrielle Haller never told Xavier he had a son...Not until David's powers manifested and were out of control and she needed his help.

Indeed but I must say that both Gaby and Xavier dropped the ball with David imo, after he fell into a coma and Charles knew he was his kid they just let Moira take care of him and both dedicated themselves to their careers until "Legion Quest".

[loke13]

I agree.



Indeed but I must say that both Gaby and Xavier dropped the ball with David imo, after he fell into a coma and Charles knew he was his kid they just let Moira take care of him and both dedicated themselves to their careers until "Legion Quest".

I feel like the X-Men way is distancing yourself from your biological children as much as possible.

[Tycon]

If Krakoa is sentient, being exploited, and not aware / consenting that’s... troubling.
The first tip is in the infographic page. No Place is a tumor on Krakoa that Krakoa is unaware of.
Tumors are signs of systemic cancerous mutation that doesn’t end well for the host (Krakoa).
Are the X-pod people cancerous cells?

I mean....a lot of this is speculative. I’m sure the people who are coming back, that will also be back in Dawn of X, are being reborn in the Cradle. And throughout House of X, characters like the Cuckoos and Cypher emphasize the importance of Krakoa’s choice in all this (whether it be letting mutants and non-mutants in the portal or providing a new language or labeling areas). The tumors are likely somehow Sinister’s doing or naturally occurring for a creature that’s amassed themself as an entire biome.

[FUBAR007]

Agreed on the dream and retcons. His character’s abuses just seem to compound.

Trying to kill his sister in the womb.

Retcon by Morrison. To be fair, she wasn't human or mutant, but rather an evil mummudrai.

Operating from the position that mutants should control/hide their gifts and learn to integrate as society’s subservient gifted children to ensure the status quo is maintained.

That this is considered wrong/evil is an artifact of changing social norms in the real world. At the time of the stories in question, integrationism was considered the enlightened, liberal position. Only in the last 10 years or so has integrationism been rejected as immoral and unethical in favor of intersectionality and critical race theory.

Taking in students then pretending to be dead.

Retcon by Roy Thomas. (Of his own story!) But, yeah, exhibit A of Silver Age Xavier being manipulative and ruthless.

Militarizing said students.

Baked into the cake from the get-go, and extralegal violence is an inherent aspect of superhero fiction. In-universe, Xavier founded the X-Men specifically to combat those he deemed to be evil mutants.

Also, this is another case of a concept being overtaken by shifting norms in the real world. At the time the X-Men were created, American teenagers could be and were drafted into the military at age 16 and placed in combat roles. Thus, the idea of kids the X-Men's age being combat trained and sent to engage in violence wasn't shocking or beyond the pale at all.

Creeping on Jean then inhibiting her for her own good.

Unless I missed a retcon, Xavier never acted on his feelings for Jean. And, the inhibitions really were for her own good. Per the flashback in Bizarre Adventures #27, Jean couldn't control her telepathy, and it was negatively affecting her mental health.

Neglecting his own kid, David.

Xavier didn't even know David existed until his first appearance in New Mutants. But, after that, yeah.

Basically stalking the Summers clan then mindwiping Cyclops and Havok’s brother Vulcan out of existence.

Retcon by Brubaker. Also, Xavier didn't find Scott. Jean did. See Classic X-Men #42.

Starting the New Mutants after believing the X-men were killed in space.

This was an abuse...how? Or, is this just reiterating the immorality of militarizing teenagers?

Leaving the New Mutants with Magneto while he recovered in space.

More naivete than malevolence. By that point, he genuinely thought he could trust Magneto.

Enslaving Danger Room.

Retcon by Whedon. Walked back via retcon by Carey. Current status quo is that he couldn't have freed Danger without killing her.

Exploiting Krakoa.

Possible, but too soon to tell. I'm still not convinced this is really Xavier.

Clearly he’s human. But his “by any means” actions sound more like Malcom X.

AFAIK, Malcolm X never ran paramilitary vigilante units.

[Lucyinthesky]

I feel like the X-Men way is distancing yourself from your biological children as much as possible.

agreed it makes me remember JDW saying that he doesn´t like super hero kids because they either have to be hand waved away because they age the characters or be raised in alternative realities.

[PrezValentine]

I hope this. The “pod people”, “Sinister controlling everyone”, “Krakoa feeding on X-Men” theories are tiring me out. I’d prefer if there was some kind of twist that didn’t take away from the X-Men finally being over humanity’s shit. You could even tie their new attitudes to Age of X-Man if you wanted.

I think people want things too "clean". Xavier and X-Men seemingly can't embrace the fact that they're the next step in evolution and try to make the best of it, they should be just dudes and girls in tights fighting robots, no moral ambiguity included. I don't get the appeal.

[FUBAR007]

I think people want things too "clean". Xavier and X-Men seemingly can't embrace the fact that they're the next step in evolution and try to make the best of it, they should be just dudes and girls in tights fighting robots, no moral ambiguity included. I don't get the appeal.

Basic tenet of superhero fiction. The good guys need to actually be good guys. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of repulsive assholes fucking each other over. If I want that, I'll watch the news. Or re-watch Game of Thrones.

Second, ruthless, amoral anti-heroes have been done to death, both in superhero fiction in general and in the X-Men franchise specifically. It's an overused, creatively exhausted trope.

Third, related to the first point, is that having the X-Men be aggressively anti-human and still be sympathetic heroes doesn't work in the Marvel Universe. It requires the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, the Avengers, and the rest of Marvel's heroes to be evil by default. That said, stripped of the superhero trappings and placed in their own grimdark universe, the X-Men as anti-human protagonists could work quite well.

[Devaishwarya]

I agree.



Indeed but I must say that both Gaby and Xavier dropped the ball with David imo, after he fell into a coma and Charles knew he was his kid they just let Moira take care of him and both dedicated themselves to their careers until "Legion Quest".

As a parent there's not much you can do if your child is in a coma for years other than visit and get updates from time to time. Barring that, you just have to live your life attending to the care and responsibilities of the living.
What was he expected to do?
Drop everything/everyone and sit by David's bedside for however long that may be?

[Lucyinthesky]

When you have telepathic habilities that you used to heal other people like Gabrielle Haller and Jean Grey from coma, when you ignore the inmediate needs of your Son, then yes, you have part of the responsibility, Xavier knows this, the problem is that he just didn´t know what to do with his Son. It´s just recently before he died in the AvX event that Xavier took off some time to be with his Son, but this was only after Legion had his third crisis and created the Age of X AU on Utopia.

[Tycon]

I think people want things too "clean". Xavier and X-Men seemingly can't embrace the fact that they're the next step in evolution and try to make the best of it, they should be just dudes and girls in tights fighting robots, no moral ambiguity included. I don't get the appeal.

This is supposed to be a brand new era. Nothing is “brand new” if none of the X-Men are willing to take the next step forward, even if it understandably freaks some heroes out. It’s not like they would be losing their “hero” status, just centering what is most important for them right now.

Moral ambiguity for one, moral ambiguity for all (X-Men)

[Mapangahas]

Newbie here. I don't know if this was already mentioned or discussed but I don't think Xavier (or X) and/or Magneto would be surviving this. I mean, they're not even mentioned in any of the Dawn of X titles.

[Havok83]

Newbie here. I don't know if this was already mentioned or discussed but I don't think Xavier (or X) and/or Magneto would be surviving this. I mean, they're not even mentioned in any of the Dawn of X titles.

They are mentioned to be appearing in Hickman's X-men run

Welcome BTW

[Mapangahas]

They are mentioned to be appearing in Hickman's X-men run

Welcome BTW

Thanks!

This series is tripping me out big time. So many unanswered questions!

[ISnowNothin]

Thanks!

This series is tripping me out big time. So many unanswered questions!

There are! The questions and how they're being raised are so fun, and hard to deduce where it's going, but you can't help but want to speculate!

[loke13]

This is supposed to be a brand new era. Nothing is “brand new” if none of the X-Men are willing to take the next step forward, even if it understandably freaks some heroes out. It’s not like they would be losing their “hero” status, just centering what is most important for them right now.

Moral ambiguity for one, moral ambiguity for all (X-Men)

The problem is I don't trust any writers to write the X-Men with morally ambiguous under tones once Hickman leaves. So that might not be a viable option in the long run.