House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[Devaishwarya]

I think Celebrities Superhero /Activists is best description of what I would want to see for at least one team basically X-men Red with more focus on general super heroics and less real world political more in world politics.

It has been done. By Claremont and Morisson. Then, some idiot like Cassandra Nova or Sinister comes in and frakks everything up...again....and the X-Men and innocent mutants go right back to being hated and feared and 'cannon-fodder' for the unwashed masses.

As experienced and talented a writer as Hickman is...I still do not want to see yet another rehash of that revolving door status quo. Let him work his magic on something truly new and original to the franchise.
Personally, I just want them to be heroes...saving the universe, and saving lives and not having to deal with any existential bull-shytt from people/governments/mutant malcontents who don't appreciate them, while doing so.

[ExodusCloak]

It has been done. By Claremont and Morisson. Then, some idiot like Cassandra Nova or Sinister comes in and frakks everything up...again....and the X-Men and innocent mutants go right back to being hated and feared and 'cannon-fodder' for the unwashed masses.

As experienced and talented a writer as Hickman is...I still do not want to see yet another rehash of that revolving door status quo. Let him work his magic on something truly new and original to the franchise.
Personally, I just want them to be heroes...saving the universe, and saving lives and not having to deal with any existential bull-shytt from people/governments/mutant malcontents who don't appreciate them, while doing so.

I strongly disagree with this. We had that after AvX and the story telling was bland and directionless. They then had to introduce an extinction threat with t cloud given how bland it was.

If you want to read heroes saving the universe read the Avengers. I'll keep my X-men themes thanks. The same themes that Bendis used to propel the Avengers into popularity in the 00s

[JB]

I mean, am I just not explaining myself correctly?

Once more, for those in the back.

Premise: To make the X-men franchise more relevant to the real-world by more closely aligning the mutant plight to other struggles for equality (race, gender, sexuality, etc.).

Pitch: Have select governments across the world, including the US, draft basic pro-mutant equality legislation and explore the sociopolitical struggles therein in ways that more closely mirror those of modern underprivileged groups. This means no more governmentally sanctioned extinction or genocide events. Everything else, i.e. prejudice, racial violence, racist institutions, the cure, etc. is still fair game. The only thing that's changed is that mutants and humans are a little bit more integrated in the day-to-day.
It's a baby step and totally not too far of a leap.

You're explaining yourself perfectly fine. My point is that you jumped on the thread "rolling your eyes" at the discussion of a very possible theory about what Hickman may do as it would fit well with where things currently are. Murdered and jailed by humans on Earth? Leave Earth. Then you make a suggestion that, though makes perfect sense in the idea of it, does not fit where things currently are. Are you reading Uncanny? If so, why would the mutants care anymore for saving humanity, at this time? Everyone needs a time out, in my opinion. And with Charles coming back, who better than him to say, "the dream isn't working, kids. Let's get out of here before more mutants die".

Now, would you like to submit to what the discussion was about? If so, please can the attitude if you want to be taken seriously. You're not a toddler.

[JB]

The real world especially the US has those laws already it .It is why reading the X-men the current run in Uncanny is frustrating as hell.If it was another country you could turn a blind eye but mutants are being hunted down and killed in America with Superhero groups and police and it feels kinda stupid. And it made more stupid with understanding X-men have save the world with other heroes so they should be a lot people who love the X-men. Also they should be a understanding mutants are next stage in evolution which makes the next point more valid. They are also trying to sell us that humans are going to looking down the possibility of getting powers which is mind blowing ridiculous. I agree with you point hate should be more subtle. X-men is stuck in Slavery/Jim Crow level hate when the hate should be more subtle or political than that.

You're right, it is frustrating reading Uncanny (though I'm enjoying it). It seems like they're setting the X-Men back from all the progress they've made. But I guess the idea is that X-Man and his horsemen's destruction finally sent humans over the edge. Everything you mention I think is absolutely possible, and may be the end result after a long trip around.

[Striderblack01]

You're explaining yourself perfectly fine. My point is that you jumped on the thread "rolling your eyes" at the discussion of a very possible theory about what Hickman may do as it would fit well with where things currently are. Murdered and jailed by humans on Earth? Leave Earth. Then you make a suggestion that, though makes perfect sense in the idea of it, does not fit where things currently are. Are you reading Uncanny? If so, why would the mutants care anymore for saving humanity, at this time? Everyone needs a time out, in my opinion. And with Charles coming back, who better than him to say, "the dream isn't working, kids. Let's get out of here before more mutants die".

Now, would you like to submit to what the discussion was about? If so, please can the attitude if you want to be taken seriously. You're not a toddler.

I'm rolling my eyes at X-men fans rooting for a mass exodus of the mutant species.

It’s insulting and doesn’t make sense on any level.

First, the species are intertwined – mutants need humans to survive.
An evacuation of Earth would severely damage the mutant race’s ability to propagate itself. Not to mention it would be tantamount to the X-men abandoning newborn mutant children, left defenseless in a world that would devour them.
It’s short-sighted, reactionary, and not at all heroic.

The problem is further exacerbated when you apply the mutant metaphor.

“Hey kids, are you gay and being persecuted? Don’t do anything silly like stand up for your rights – that’s exhausting. Just throw your hands up, exile yourself somewhere, and wait for things to magically get better. Because who cares, am I right? Here’s some space monsters to pass the time! Excelsior!”

As a Latino in the US, hell, as a human being, that message does me no good. There’s nowhere to go - prejudice exists everywhere. If I were to leave, the only thing that would change would be the language people used while proclaiming their inherent superiority to others.


I understand why people want mutants to leave Earth.

For a long time, the writing X-franchise has been terribly lackluster. Its building of the status quo has been abysmal – mutants are hated, now they’re going extinct, now they’re back, now they’re loved, now they’re hated worse than ever before. It’s disorienting.
It’s handling of the struggle has largely been superficial, often only barely managing to pay lip service but never really digging any deeper.
And it’s terribly obsessed with genocide, often not even making a good commentary about it. It’s treated as just another summer event - another evil mutant or bigot or whomever doing whatever because it’s that time of the year.

We’re so sick of it that some of us would gladly abandon the entire premise of the line just to get away from extinction events and get different stories.

But I don’t want the X-men to be the Inhumans.
I want the X-men to be what they’ve always been:

Champions of equality and acceptance. Defenders of a world that hates and fears them.

And, wouldn’t you know it, you can’t do any of that by abandoning Earth.

—
So, now knowing my feelings on the subject a little better, I’ll ask you this:
Why should I be reading X-men comics right now?
What’s changed? What groundbreaking stories have I missed?
Hot Claws? Jean’s back? Scott lost an eye?

[Devaishwarya]

"Champions of equality and acceptance. Defenders of a world that hates and fears them.

And, wouldn’t you know it, you can’t do any of that by abandoning Earth."


As you've said..."prejudice exists everywhere". So...to answer your question(s)

Of course they can...Champion
Of course they will always be...Defenders

How does establishing a safe and functioning home base off-world prevent them from being "Champions"?
If anything, by not having to worry constantly about who's stabbing them in their backs or plotting their extinction, they might actually be more effective Champions of the Cause and not just Defenders to the ungrateful wretches of humanity on earth but all life, throughout the known galaxy.

and btw...Inhumans are not X-Men are not Inhumans...if you can't see the vast, inherent difference between the two then...I'm sorry.

[JB]

I'm rolling my eyes at X-men fans rooting for a mass exodus of the mutant species.

It’s insulting and doesn’t make sense on any level.

First, the species are intertwined – mutants need humans to survive.
An evacuation of Earth would severely damage the mutant race’s ability to propagate itself. Not to mention it would be tantamount to the X-men abandoning newborn mutant children, left defenseless in a world that would devour them.
It’s short-sighted, reactionary, and not at all heroic.

The problem is further exacerbated when you apply the mutant metaphor.

“Hey kids, are you gay and being persecuted? Don’t do anything silly like stand up for your rights – that’s exhausting. Just throw your hands up, exile yourself somewhere, and wait for things to magically get better. Because who cares, am I right? Here’s some space monsters to pass the time! Excelsior!”

As a Latino in the US, hell, as a human being, that message does me no good. There’s nowhere to go - prejudice exists everywhere. If I were to leave, the only thing that would change would be the language people used while proclaiming their inherent superiority to others.


I understand why people want mutants to leave Earth.

For a long time, the writing X-franchise has been terribly lackluster. Its building of the status quo has been abysmal – mutants are hated, now they’re going extinct, now they’re back, now they’re loved, now they’re hated worse than ever before. It’s disorienting.
It’s handling of the struggle has largely been superficial, often only barely managing to pay lip service but never really digging any deeper.
And it’s terribly obsessed with genocide, often not even making a good commentary about it. It’s treated as just another summer event - another evil mutant or bigot or whomever doing whatever because it’s that time of the year.

We’re so sick of it that some of us would gladly abandon the entire premise of the line just to get away from extinction events and get different stories.

But I don’t want the X-men to be the Inhumans.
I want the X-men to be what they’ve always been:

Champions of equality and acceptance. Defenders of a world that hates and fears them.

And, wouldn’t you know it, you can’t do any of that by abandoning Earth.

—
So, now knowing my feelings on the subject a little better, I’ll ask you this:
Why should I be reading X-men comics right now?
What’s changed? What groundbreaking stories have I missed?
Hot Claws? Jean’s back? Scott lost an eye?

I really appreciate you being candid here. Go back a few pages on this thread and you'll see my side of it as a gay, Latino man. My home was at war when I tried to come out and I had to leave to emotionally survive. As I said in my previous post, fast forward to 5 years ago and my mother was dancing with my husband at our wedding. Had I stayed, we might have killed each other and likely no wedding.

This is why the idea of an exodus makes sense to me. It doesn't have to be permanent but a separation was exactly what I needed in my life. That's my perspective. I blossomed when I left home, even if I left in a mad dash. That's where I'm coming from - what if the departure helps the mutants reach their real potential? What if humans come to realize their sins in their treatment of mutants? What if one cannot live without the other?

And let's face it, laws haven't done nearly enough to quell the anger and division in the world. Laws cannot enforce love.

[MichelleDiMera]

Wasnt really your home if you had to leave..there is no one that can make me leave something I pay for.

[JB]

Wasnt really your home if you had to leave..there is no one that can make me leave something I pay for.

You're right, wasn't my home if I had to leave. I made the choice cause I really didn't have the energy to convince the parents to accept me, and thankfully found myself in the process. A good friend I work with left home at 17 because his parents wanted to send him to therapy to fix him (this was in Brooklyn, imagine that). He disappeared for a few years and when they finally tracked him down, he was living abroad going to school in Spain and then later England. He said leaving the house pushed him to prove himself, achieve big, and now has a wonderful relationship with his family and a business outside of NYC.

Of course this does not happen for everyone but sometimes it takes finding yourself before you can come back. Because trying to find yourself in a hostile environment is a lot harder. If one can do that, then they no longer feel the need to blame someone else for anything. Yeah, I'm really liking this Mars theory.

[Mutant X]

I'm sure we don't have to worry about Hickman's idea.

I have read everything he has ever written, and he always surprises me with a new approach.

[Snoop Dogg]

The quality of Savior Star Hickman's run is dependent on how shitty his retcons will be. Give a man with that much ambition X-Men, the franchise with the worst retcons in the multiverse, and worlds will collide.

[Striderblack01]

I really appreciate you being candid here. Go back a few pages on this thread and you'll see my side of it as a gay, Latino man. My home was at war when I tried to come out and I had to leave to emotionally survive. As I said in my previous post, fast forward to 5 years ago and my mother was dancing with my husband at our wedding. Had I stayed, we might have killed each other and likely no wedding.

This is why the idea of an exodus makes sense to me. It doesn't have to be permanent but a separation was exactly what I needed in my life. That's my perspective. I blossomed when I left home, even if I left in a mad dash. That's where I'm coming from - what if the departure helps the mutants reach their real potential? What if humans come to realize their sins in their treatment of mutants? What if one cannot live without the other?

And let's face it, laws haven't done nearly enough to quell the anger and division in the world. Laws cannot enforce love.

Well, first of all, thank you for sharing your story with me.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time, and am glad that the relationships between you and the people you love improved to the point that you could all share in, what I can only imagine, was one of the happiest days of your life.

I've been pretty lucky, all things considered.
Despite my brown skin, I haven't really personally experienced some of the hardships that affect the underprivileged communities everyday in America.
This might sound stupid, but I actually think it's largely because I'm well-spoken and am somewhat decent looking (it's my smile).
I'm also a bit of a shut-in.

If I had to pick a personal reason of why I'm against the idea of an exodus, it's because I'm Puerto Rican.
Puerto Rico's history with the US governments is not a happy one. I won't go into it, but one my irrational fears is that the rich are manipulating the government to essentially evict us from our land so that they can get cheap beach-front property.

At any rate, I don't think this was an underlying reason for my proposal.
(Just returning the gesture)

More on point, I don't think the absence-makes-the-heart-grow-fonder approach would work for mutant-human relations.
There's no emotional connection or impetus to force humanity towards reconciliation. And, I feel like it's been done before - mutants have hid in Limbo, asteroids, islands, Central Park, etc. And nothing really ever seems to improve their situation.

Unless its in service to some kind of all-out open war between the two races, which would actually be new and interesting (to me) but unlikely, I'm not inclined to continue reading stories of the mutant race hiding out someplace out of fear of genocide.

[Devaishwarya]

The quality of Savior Star Hickman's run is dependent on how shitty his retcons will be. Give a man with that much ambition X-Men, the franchise with the worst retcons in the multiverse, and worlds will collide.

I don't know.
He has always been a more thoughtful writer when it comes to his subject matter (a little too thoughtful, sometimes) so...even if the retcons are shytty, there'll be sound reasoning behind them.
That said, whether or not the retcons are shytty, there's a very vocal sub-section of readers who are already pre-disposed to loathing it with a passion because...HiX-Man "obliterated their childhoods with a rusty butter knife".
Some retcons will be good, some fekkin' awful and the rest, wtf-ever...it really would depend on the individual reader at that point.

Thankfully, I've been in this comic-books thing long enough to not be overly bothered with retcons. Once you tell a good, interesting story and give me beauty-full art...I'm happy.

[JB]

Well, first of all, thank you for sharing your story with me.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time, and am glad that the relationships between you and the people you love improved to the point that you could all share in, what I can only imagine, was one of the happiest days of your life.

I've been pretty lucky, all things considered.
Despite my brown skin, I haven't really personally experienced some of the hardships that affect the underprivileged communities everyday in America.
This might sound stupid, but I actually think it's largely because I'm well-spoken and am somewhat decent looking (it's my smile).
I'm also a bit of a shut-in.

If I had to pick a personal reason of why I'm against the idea of an exodus, it's because I'm Puerto Rican.
Puerto Rico's history with the US governments is not a happy one. I won't go into it, but one my irrational fears is that the rich are manipulating the government to essentially evict us from our land so that they can get cheap beach-front property.

At any rate, I don't think this was an underlying reason for my proposal.
(Just returning the gesture)

More on point, I don't think the absence-makes-the-heart-grow-fonder approach would work for mutant-human relations.
There's no emotional connection or impetus to force humanity towards reconciliation. And, I feel like it's been done before - mutants have hid in Limbo, asteroids, islands, Central Park, etc. And nothing really ever seems to improve their situation.

Unless its in service to some kind of all-out open war between the two races, which would actually be new and interesting (to me) but unlikely, I'm not inclined to continue reading stories of the mutant race hiding out someplace out of fear of genocide.

Thanks for the kind words. My family is originally from Ponce. Who knows, we may be cousins lol. But I get what you're saying and it makes sense where you're coming from. And I'm sure you're not wrong about what's going on in PR. A lot of corruption - like everywhere else it seems.

What also drew me to the Mars theory was the idea that mutants could finally reach their potential if not busy fighting with the humans. In my mind, I'd love to see them evolve and create organic solutions that they can share with the humans, and humanity could finally see them for the gift they are. Although what just happened in Uncanny this week pushes that dream even further away (you can catch the spoiler thread if you're not reading). Thank you for the discussion. The world could use more of these.

[JB]

I don't know.
He has always been a more thoughtful writer when it comes to his subject matter (a little too thoughtful, sometimes) so...even if the retcons are shytty, there'll be sound reasoning behind them.
That said, whether or not the retcons are shytty, there's a very vocal sub-section of readers who are already pre-disposed to loathing it with a passion because...HiX-Man "obliterated their childhoods with a rusty butter knife".
Some retcons will be good, some fekkin' awful and the rest, wtf-ever...it really would depend on the individual reader at that point.

Thankfully, I've been in this comic-books thing long enough to not be overly bothered with retcons. Once you tell a good, interesting story and give me beauty-full art...I'm happy.

I found it interesting that Jordan White said it was early in his return to the X-Office that he knew of Hickman coming in. So my hope is that they really sat down and ironed this thing out since they had about a year to do so.