House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[Triniking1234]

Can't remember the last time I saw Hisako where she didn't look like Laura or Jet Li.

[Havok83]

That doll even captures the resting bitch face attitude she had all throughout Disassembled

[JB]

Cute Kurt cover! Just wish they had one of him with the beard.

[Havok83]

Cute Kurt cover! Just wish they had one of him with the beard.

Red gets no love

[Rivka]

Popping back onto this board for half-an-hour to share my latest crackpot theory and then I'll be out of here again...

Unless all 10 lives are a simulation in (Morrison's) The World or (Claremont's) Danger Room or (Brubaker's) Dream-time, then Hickman was bending the truth or outright fibbing (which would be an outrageous thing for a sci-fi/fantasy writer to do, right?) when he said no time-travel or parallel universes are involved.

Moira cannot possibly reset the entire Marvel universe every time she dies. Her power is not actually reincarnation. What must happen each time she dies is, all her past experiences and knowledge is sent by psychic means back through time to her birth --which is an established canonical phenomenon in DOFP-- and we know, also through DOFP, that you only spin off an alternate timeline rather than change the future (which is already the mind-traveller's past). All the 10 timelines we've read so far must carry on after each Moira dies, she just has no knowledge of what happens thereafter.

Hickman has shown us that it was only misdirection which made us assume the 4 panels on the opening page of POX#1 take place in the same timeline. While X^1 is unequivocally Life 10 (House of X), he surprised many of us by revealing that X^2 is in fact Life 9 (House of A).

Ok, this is where I go batshit crazy -- Life 10 is not our 616.

Charles, Scott and Jean seemed to act out of character not because they're pod people, but because the trajectory of their lives have been re-directed and warped by Moira's knowledge which she has shared with, at least, Charles and Eric. The mutant suicide squad who bought it on The Forge were all the originals and they will not be reborn. In Life 10 they are dead and forever gone (maybe except Logan who could have leapt into Mother Mold's mouth, and they were then picked up by the front wave of Sentinels arriving from Mars). The loss of his best soldiers drive Charles to bring onboard Apocalypse and Sinister. Things go from bad to worse until, far in the future, mutants manage to subvert Nimrod to their cause, and wipe out humans, leaving only a few devolved specimens in "The Preserve". This is what we saw in X^3, which ends in the Mutant-Machine "government" inviting the Phalanx to fold Earth into the Ascension. As one might expect, this will go wrong and spell the destruction of Earth.

Wait, it gets more insane: Moira is somehow shown that the happiest ending is for Man, Mutant and Machine to all get along (check out Novacene by the 100 year old author James Lovelock --the propounder of the Gaia theory 40 years ago-- in which he is hopeful that hyperintelligent AI will take the driver's seat and recognise that its platform needs a Gaian planet, and will help us preserve it).

Cross-reference: All Star Superman in which Morrison's proposed answer to the question "What would happen if an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" is, "They surrender." (I've another series conclusion in mind, Vaughn's Paper Girls, but it would be too big a spoiler for those who've not read it.)

The rub is, this happy ending was only ever achieved in one of her lives so far, Life 4, the one which superficially looks like our 616, and it could only happen if she did not interfere despite all her foreknowledge. Thus, Moira makes what Destiny foresaw as the "correct" decision. Moira dies after the botched Ascension in Life 10 and returns in Life 11, by which time she has decided to leave the universe the fuck alone.

So... Moira approaches Charles in the Fairgrounds (clue: she refers to the Nimrod tower as "the monolith of ascension", which did not happen in her Life 9) and asks him to erase her memories (and, presumably, Charles's own knowledge of what he read in her mind). The Year^0 sequence in both HOX and POX containing "the most important scene in X Men history" takes place not in Life 10 but Life 11, and this is the 616 timeline we all know, with Moira continuing on, with no knowledge of her previous 10 lives.

And, yes, Hickman promises us faithful readers a happy ending to the Man-Mutant-Machine War, but only about a thousand years from now, after much blood, sweat and tears, which means any and all stories of the War can be written that would not contradict the fact that it all ends in Unity.

Now, before the Time Police come to get me, I'm logging off, CIAO!

I like how you think. I have no idea if this is what Hickman is doing, but I like your theory.

However, the bolded part of your theory is--for me personally--quite brilliant. Actually, you inspired an adjustment in my thinking. What's happening *is* reincarnation, whether Hickman is using the term correctly or not. But if he is, what you describe *is" reincarnation. In classic reincarnation, the physical body isn't reborn over and over, the soul or essence or whatever you want to call it is reborn in different bodies as you ascend or descend the wheel of life depending on your behavior in each previous life. I was trying to wrap my brain around Moira being reborn physically in each life; i.e., her parents having sex, the egg being fertilized, implanted, the embryo growing in exactly the same way--I kept asking myself, "At what point does Moira restart?" But that leads to Marvel making some messy statements about the beginning of human life, and getting involved in the abortion debate. Honestly, your post made me think of this for the first time--so maybe I'm just slow--but yeah, you are totally correct! Her soul, her essence, her astral self, whatever you want to call it--the body-less spirit that is us (if you believe that but the Marvel Universe has established the existence of this body-less soul/essence too many times to count)--it's traveling back to a point just past her original conception and occupying her own flesh-and-blood fetal self, instead of the body of a salamander, or cat, or elephant, or another human being, as her karma would direct in the belief systems of several different religions.

Each time a new time line *could* peel off, or each time the Marvel Universe *could* reset--I still can't figure that out. Has this ever happened in the Marvel Universe before? As you say, in DoFP Kitty occupies the body of her future self, which allows her to change the course of history in 616, thereby making the DoFP universe a new timeline. But has any character gone back and occupied a younger self?

Anyway, there is only one Moira physically, one embryo, one fetus, one baby, but multiple reincarnations of her soul, her spirit, her essence, her mind, however you want to describe it.

I like your theory most especially because it saves Moira as a character. My only question would be, how does Xavier wipe his own memories and/or, does he? (Because that would be really creepy if he promised to do as she asked, but instead kept all the foreknowledge.) And technically, because Hickman destroyed Moira as a naturally brilliant genius prodigy--the most brilliant woman in the Marvel Universe born that way the first time, not wanting babies and boyfriends but science and learning and serving humanity--since now Hickman is telling us Oh no, Moira was just some stupid girlie-girl who only wanted to get married and have babies and didn't care about the suffering of others--if Xavier wipes her mind, how does she become the brilliant, genius, prodigy Moira of 616? Because the Lord Knows, as Mr. Hickman seems to think, she can't possibly be born that way--being a woman--a natural human non-mutant who is as brilliant as Tony Stark and Reed Richards and as caring about human and mutant suffering as Xavier purports to be.

Sorry for the rant. But seriously, how does your theory keep 616 Moira as we know her?

[phoenixzero23]

I don't know if this variant was already shown but here it is
69774318_10219848946036124_4214743057871929344_n.jpg

[Havok83]

Skottie Young needs to stop playing and do a HoX oneshot featuring the X-babies

[Snoop Dogg]

https://twitter.com/CBCebulski/statu...52352537133056

s to the i to the n to the i to the s to the t to the e to the r

retcon
reboot
retcon
reboot

[Triniking1234]

Skottie Young needs to stop playing and do a HoX oneshot featuring the X-babies

That would require Marvel to pay him.

[Tycon]

if Xavier takes that big ass Cerebro off his head and i see a red diamond on his forehead im taking a poo on this issue (ahhaah jk.....unless).

[Snoop Dogg]

"Now I know this sounds crazy, Scott, but you have to trust Sinister now, too. His red diamond is actually the mutant codex!"

"Containing a complete database of mutantkind?! That in the wrong hands will lead the decimation of our race?!"

"no bro it's my full browser history if it leaks it'll be really embarrassing bro please bro erik will laugh at me please bro please "

[TOTALITY]

I like how you think. I have no idea if this is what Hickman is doing, but I like your theory.

However, the bolded part of your theory is--for me personally--quite brilliant. Actually, you inspired an adjustment in my thinking. What's happening *is* reincarnation, whether Hickman is using the term correctly or not. But if he is, what you describe *is" reincarnation. In classic reincarnation, the physical body isn't reborn over and over, the soul or essence or whatever you want to call it is reborn in different bodies as you ascend or descend the wheel of life depending on your behavior in each previous life. I was trying to wrap my brain around Moira being reborn physically in each life; i.e., her parents having sex, the egg being fertilized, implanted, the embryo growing in exactly the same way--I kept asking myself, "At what point does Moira restart?" But that leads to Marvel making some messy statements about the beginning of human life, and getting involved in the abortion debate. Honestly, your post made me think of this for the first time--so maybe I'm just slow--but yeah, you are totally correct! Her soul, her essence, her astral self, whatever you want to call it--the body-less spirit that is us (if you believe that but the Marvel Universe has established the existence of this body-less soul/essence too many times to count)--it's traveling back to a point just past her original conception and occupying her own flesh-and-blood fetal self, instead of the body of a salamander, or cat, or elephant, or another human being, as her karma would direct in the belief systems of several different religions.

Each time a new time line *could* peel off, or each time the Marvel Universe *could* reset--I still can't figure that out. Has this ever happened in the Marvel Universe before? As you say, in DoFP Kitty occupies the body of her future self, which allows her to change the course of history in 616, thereby making the DoFP universe a new timeline. But has any character gone back and occupied a younger self?

Anyway, there is only one Moira physically, one embryo, one fetus, one baby, but multiple reincarnations of her soul, her spirit, her essence, her mind, however you want to describe it.

I like your theory most especially because it saves Moira as a character. My only question would be, how does Xavier wipe his own memories and/or, does he? (Because that would be really creepy if he promised to do as she asked, but instead kept all the foreknowledge.) And technically, because Hickman destroyed Moira as a naturally brilliant genius prodigy--the most brilliant woman in the Marvel Universe born that way the first time, not wanting babies and boyfriends but science and learning and serving humanity--since now Hickman is telling us Oh no, Moira was just some stupid girlie-girl who only wanted to get married and have babies and didn't care about the suffering of others--if Xavier wipes her mind, how does she become the brilliant, genius, prodigy Moira of 616? Because the Lord Knows, as Mr. Hickman seems to think, she can't possibly be born that way--being a woman--a natural human non-mutant who is as brilliant as Tony Stark and Reed Richards and as caring about human and mutant suffering as Xavier purports to be.

Sorry for the rant. But seriously, how does your theory keep 616 Moira as we know her?

I feel so differently about the revelation of Moira having grown in her ideology and scientific curiosity over time! And I definitely didn't read it as diminishing her because of how she started out, or asserting that a woman *couldn't* just be born that way. I mean, Hickman's Valeria was a great character, and smarter than Reed. But in general I prefer a narrative of evolution over something that puts so much emphasis on 'born that way' essentialism. A person opening their mind more and more as they go when so many do the opposite, and a willingness to shed old ideas of oneself, means so much more to me than someone just going where their natural aptitude leads them. And since it's not like her mental capacity is expanding each time (that we know of), just her memories and consequently her perspective, the implication is that there's no reason Moira couldn't have been a brilliant scientist or world leader in her first life; that's just not where her experiences led her. I take it, intentionally or not, as a refutation of the idea that everyone gets the role in the world that they're qualified for. For every Moira I who dies happy and surrounded by loved ones, there are others who are burdened with Moira II's dissatisfaction but not gifted with her supernatural advantage. Anyway, that short story really resonated with me! Not that your takeaways are any less valid, though!

I actually proposed something similar to this theory when HOX 2 first came out; or at least that it isn't "reincarnation" as we think of it. My theory was that her mutant power was actually like a much more powerful and specific version of Destiny's. If we imagine that Destiny's ability doesn't actually involve time travel, but rather a kind of psionic super sensitivity to the universe around her that extrapolates likely sequences of events on the fly, then Moira's could be a version of that, that gifted her from conception with 9 complete extrapolations of her own path in life, each building on the previous ones. But I don't think there's really much dramatic purpose to now saying that, for instance, everything from the X^2 timeline took place only in Moira's mind at the moment of her conception. It was just an attempt to make her mutant power make more sense to me... although, I really think her power can be whatever they say it is. Franklin Richards and Legion seem to be enough precedent for it to be as far-reaching and reality-warping as they want.

[xhx23x]

"Now I know this sounds crazy, Scott, but you have to trust Sinister now, too. His red diamond is actually the mutant codex!"

"Containing a complete database of mutantkind?! That in the wrong hands will lead the decimation of our race?!"

"no bro it's my full browser history if it leaks it'll be really embarrassing bro please bro erik will laugh at me please bro please "

This is plausible.

[powerpax]

if Xavier takes that big ass Cerebro off his head and i see a red diamond on his forehead im taking a poo on this issue (ahhaah jk.....unless).

I definitely had that thought a few weeks ago, but the end of last week disabused me. It's definitely gonna be somewhere though (pls not the glans)

[powerpax]

Skottie Young needs to stop playing and do a HoX oneshot featuring the X-babies

Seriously when will mysterious X-Baby Alex finally come into play