House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[Havok83]

Do you have any specific examples?

I feel that it's broadly acceptable, and generally fits with what we know. The Magneto and Xavier relationship seemed the hardest to reconcile....but if you look at the timing of when Xavier and Moira approached him, it was right before he started his turn toward becoming a good guy for a while, and then they mention the "Schism" that would probably be from X-Men #1 in the 90s.

Everything else is loosely defined enough to the point where I don't really see it as being all that different from any other retcon where something we never knew is revealed.

Them working with Sinister is a huge red flag, especially how much of an adversary he's been. Xavier's death and resurrection unconnected to this is another example I cited. There's also alot of variables such as The Five, that I cant see how Xavier would have forsight to plan this for years, especially Hope's birth and rise is so specific. After AvX, she was pretty much thrown away and its not like anyone was trying to protect her to ensure she was alive to play a future role. And I dont buy Moira as an excuse as her lives are radically different from each other bc of actions taken, so I cant buy that Xavier was able to orchestrate events and know exactly what was happened based off of diverent timelines on stuff that may or most likely wont happen in his present life

Biggest issue to reconcile is Xavier right before this entire thing. Everything suggested he was sick of the X-men as they were, essentially pining for younger versions of themselves.

Though of course you could reconcile this by it being revealed that the Mutants are Xavier's ideal versions of them rather than necessarily their most current versions.

I found Xavier easier to understand early in this series as he could reasonably have been plucked from where we last saw him in AXM but all this past stuff implying that he's been planning Krakoa for years and not simply since his return, doesnt make sense to me

[Glio]

Them working with Sinister is a huge red flag, especially how much of an adversary he's been. Xavier's death and resurrection unconnected to this is another example I cited. There's also alot of variables such as The Five, that I cant see how Xavier would have forsight to plan this for years, especially Hope's birth and rise is so specific. After AvX, she was pretty much thrown away and its not like anyone was trying to protect her to ensure she was alive to play a future role. And I dont buy Moira as an excuse as her lives are radically different from each other bc of actions taken, so I cant buy that Xavier was able to orchestrate events and know exactly what was happened based off of diverent timelines on stuff that may or most likely wont happen in his present life



I found Xavier easier to understand early in this series as he could reasonably have been plucked from where we last saw him in AXM but all this past stuff implying that he's been planning Krakoa for years and not simply since his return, doesnt make sense to me

If the Phoenix Five existed in life 4, it is not impossible to assume that Hope too.

[Frobisher]

Them working with Sinister is a huge red flag, especially how much of an adversary he's been. Xavier's death and resurrection unconnected to this is another example I cited. There's also alot of variables such as The Five, that I cant see how Xavier would have forsight to plan this for years, especially Hope's birth and rise is so specific. After AvX, she was pretty much thrown away and its not like anyone was trying to protect her to ensure she was alive to play a future role. And I dont buy Moira as an excuse as her lives are radically different from each other bc of actions taken, so I cant buy that Xavier was able to orchestrate events and know exactly what was happened based off of diverent timelines on stuff that may or most likely wont happen in his present life



I found Xavier easier to understand early in this series as he could reasonably have been plucked from where we last saw him in AXM but all this past stuff implying that he's been planning Krakoa for years and not simply since his return, doesnt make sense to me

The answer to these, and any other hanging question we might have is infographics.

[Havok83]

If the Phoenix Five existed in life 4, it is not impossible to assume that Hope too.

And how would Xavier know that they and Hope would exist in the HoX timeline? There presumably were 5-6 timelines that existed after Life 4, which did not

[spirit2011]

If the Phoenix Five existed in life 4, it is not impossible to assume that Hope too.

Not really. It doesn't need Hope to exist

[Rosebunse]

The answer to these, and any other hanging question we might have is infographics.

I love his graphs so much!

Biggest issue to reconcile is Xavier right before this entire thing. Everything suggested he was sick of the X-men as they were, essentially pining for younger versions of themselves.

Though of course you could reconcile this by it being revealed that the Mutants are Xavier's ideal versions of them rather than necessarily their most current versions.

Maybe there's a reason Jean is in her Marvel Girl get-up.

[spirit2011]

I love his graphs so much!


Maybe there's a reason Jean is in her Marvel Girl get-up.

She has memories of her x-factor/inferno. It goes beyond marvel girl

[Glio]

Not really. It doesn't need Hope to exist

The most logical thing is to assume that the fourth life is similar to 616 unless otherwise stated.
Hope does not have to exist for Phoenix Five, but Occam's razor and conservation of detail tell us that if all we have seen of the fourth life are things equal to ten, it is that everything was more or less similar.

And how would Xavier know that they and Hope would exist in the HoX timeline? There presumably were 5-6 timelines that existed after Life 4, which did not

It is likely that superficially fourth and tenth life closely resemble each other. Moira's plan probably involves "replicating" the fourth life to some extent except for key changes.

[Havok83]

It is likely that superficially fourth and tenth life closely resemble each other. Moira's plan probably involves "replicating" the fourth life to some extent except for key changes.

If thats the case then why did she marry Joe McTaggert and not Xavier? That decision alone should have hindered her ability to even attempt to replicate her earlier 4th life since not being with Xavier should have had massive implications. I dont buy it anyway as it was established that her simply have knowledge caused things to be different. There's a butterfly effect happening here

She has memories of her x-factor/inferno. It goes beyond marvel girl

We dont know what memories she has access to. That line she said wasnt evidence that she does

[Harpsikord]

We dont know what memories she has access to. That line she said wasnt evidence that she does

Incorrect. The entire point of the scene was the characters referencing moments between them that Storm would remember, which is why Jean said what she did. She knows at LEAST up through Inferno.

[Glio]

Just for fun

From here https://twitter.com/JohnAmor/status/...703388673?s=20

[hawkeyefan]

Biggest issue to reconcile is Xavier right before this entire thing. Everything suggested he was sick of the X-men as they were, essentially pining for younger versions of themselves.

Though of course you could reconcile this by it being revealed that the Mutants are Xavier's ideal versions of them rather than necessarily their most current versions.

Sounds kind of the exact mindset he might be in to try something new.

I haven’t been reading the books in some time, but I thought the general consensus is that they’ve been pretty bad for the most part, with perhaps a few bright spots here and there depending on personal preference.

So why not just ignore all that stuff?

[Devaishwarya]

Having Sinister and Mystique as members of the Council means that they stand to lose as much or even more if they should decide to "frakk shytt up".
And... this way they are monitored and kept in check...for the most part. (Keep your enemies closer and all of that).
Of course, they being who they are, I am sure they will attempt to subvert the status quo for their own purposes (I'd be very disappointed if they didn't at least try, just once).

[hawkeyefan]

Them working with Sinister is a huge red flag, especially how much of an adversary he's been. Xavier's death and resurrection unconnected to this is another example I cited. There's also alot of variables such as The Five, that I cant see how Xavier would have forsight to plan this for years, especially Hope's birth and rise is so specific. After AvX, she was pretty much thrown away and its not like anyone was trying to protect her to ensure she was alive to play a future role. And I dont buy Moira as an excuse as her lives are radically different from each other bc of actions taken, so I cant buy that Xavier was able to orchestrate events and know exactly what was happened based off of diverent timelines on stuff that may or most likely wont happen in his present life

I don’t think he needs to have orchestrated this exact plan as the end goal all along, but rather is adapting as things develop, and then seizing opportunity when it comes along, using Moira’s lives as a guide. We know life 4 is very similar to the world we know, so he will have a good idea of how things will play out there, along with her other lives.

I don’t see why he couldn’t have been aware of Hope. More important when it comes to The Five is that he needs to have learned that when certain mutant abilities are combined, they have an exponential effect. Knowing just that general fact, he’d be able to assemble groups with specific tasks in mind.

As for Sinister and Forge and other alliances....I see room for them. Honestly, I don’t think Xavier and Sinister have interacted all that much. Sinister always seems to show up when Xavier is dead/in space/missing/etc.

Perhaps it was his most recent apparent death that really made him realize he’s got to get things going.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Incorrect. The entire point of the scene was the characters referencing moments between them that Storm would remember, which is why Jean said what she did. She knows at LEAST up through Inferno.

I think it's that Hickman just sees her as weak and not that she's a 60s version of her mind, but that line doesn't prove anything one way or another, really. That could be something that Jean is just really likely to say when asked about her identity.