House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[PsychoEFrost]

Lmao I cant think of one person from a minority group that hasnt dreamed once in their life of flying off to a place where they wouldnt have to deal with racism/homophobia/whatwillhaveyou and just be surrounded by ppl like themselves.

And then they wake up, and realize that it doesn't work from a real world perspective. Losing your job and home to get a new one in a better location isn't achievable for a lot of people.

[tuck frump]

Yeah good thing the XMen is a work of fiction.

[RachelGrey]

I was talking with another user, and I think I nailed down why this new status quo bothers me: It's a logical continuation of how humans act in the X-comics.

X-comic humans come in exactly two varieties: apathetic onlooker who just wants to not get involved, or KKK-level hyper racist who wants all mutants to die horribly. From that perspective, the need for Attilan... I mean Krakoa makes more sense.

But it also drops any pretense of the X-Men still standing for oppressed minorities, which bothers me. Imagine during the civil rights movement, someone proposed a happy and healthy island with resources for all African-Americans to live and be free of being attacked or oppressed. They just wouldn't be Americans anymore. I can't imagine there would be ANY support for that from the African-American community.

I don't know you could look at the formation of the nation of Israel after WWII. You could look at South Africa after Nelson Mandela was freed and became President of the country. Is Israel and South Africa perfect after gaining independence and freedom, they have problems and they are going through growing pains like all nations. They even make mistakes like all nations. The point is that they are allowed the right to make mistakes and have successes just like any other independent free nation on Earth.

Krakoa isn't isolating themselves, they are controlling travel in and out of their country, but after suffering horrible genocidal events over the last few years it's understandable that they just want to focus internally on building their infrastructure and making sure everyone in their new nation has a proper place to live and food to eat. But as for the world Krakoa is signing peace and trade treaties with any country that is willing to sit down at the table with them. They are even bargaining in good faith and being up front about what they want safe travel for mutants to emigrate to Krakoa unmolested and free, amnesty for past criminal activity in the face of past oppressive and genocidal tactics by humans, recognition by the United Nations and a seat in the General Assembly like all other recognized nations, the right to trade with other nations in the world freely without sanctions. In exchange the Krakoan government will trade their life giving medicines and keep them affordable and won't allow them to be overpriced. Krakoa will pay properly for any supplies they need from other countries and will trade in good faith. Krakoa will answer calls for global assistance just like the X-Men did in the past, but now they will deploy out under the flag of their nation and under the rules of the United Nations.

I will agree that there are suspicious things going on behind the scenes with Moira, Charles, Erik, and Sinister. Possibly Apocalypse and Sebastian Shaw as well. Emma, Jean, Storm, Kurt, Scott, and others are acting in good faith and with good intentions toward world peace.

I am sure there will be drama and conflict, but I am going to hope that Krakoa survives these things and remains a free nation. I like that mutants have a sanctuary now, that they can bring up their children in safety and don't have to worry about busloads of children being bombed by racists or by government representatives.

[CellarDweller]

Regarding "Make more mutants", does that automatically happen?

Humans can have mutants, so can't mutants have humans? I'm assuming that those mutants who give birth to non-powered humans, those offspring will still be allowed to live on Krakoa.

[PsychoEFrost]

Yeah good thing the XMen is a work of fiction.

Also a good thing we were talking about a theoretical.

[RachelGrey]

Regarding "Make more mutants", does that automatically happen?

Humans can have mutants, so can't mutants have humans? I'm assuming that those mutants who give birth to non-powered humans, those offspring will still be allowed to live on Krakoa.

I think it calls back to the fact that there is a very long queue of people who have died in recent genocides and that the council has a moral obligation to bring those people back since they can.

I expect that Mystique will find she has allies in Kurt and Jean at minimum to bring Irene/Destiny back and several people will want to bring Ruth/Blindfold back. I think the "no precogs" thing is going to come into conflict with the "Make More Mutants" law because technically it is against Krakoan law to stand in the way of someone's resurrection based on what specific power they have.

As for human children, Jubilee's son is already on the island and he is baseline human. I think it's more that human visitors from outside will require an escort at all times to prevent anyone from bringing a terrorist device to the island. The mutants are just being super cautious after being constantly attacked for so many years. But I don't believe anyone would be angry about a mutant having a human child.

[PsychoEFrost]

I don't know you could look at the formation of the nation of Israel after WWII. You could look at South Africa after Nelson Mandela was freed and became President of the country. Is Israel and South Africa perfect after gaining independence and freedom, they have problems and they are going through growing pains like all nations. They even make mistakes like all nations. The point is that they are allowed the right to make mistakes and have successes just like any other independent free nation on Earth.

Krakoa isn't isolating themselves, they are controlling travel in and out of their country, but after suffering horrible genocidal events over the last few years it's understandable that they just want to focus internally on building their infrastructure and making sure everyone in their new nation has a proper place to live and food to eat. But as for the world Krakoa is signing peace and trade treaties with any country that is willing to sit down at the table with them. They are even bargaining in good faith and being up front about what they want safe travel for mutants to emigrate to Krakoa unmolested and free, amnesty for past criminal activity in the face of past oppressive and genocidal tactics by humans, recognition by the United Nations and a seat in the General Assembly like all other recognized nations, the right to trade with other nations in the world freely without sanctions. In exchange the Krakoan government will trade their life giving medicines and keep them affordable and won't allow them to be overpriced. Krakoa will pay properly for any supplies they need from other countries and will trade in good faith. Krakoa will answer calls for global assistance just like the X-Men did in the past, but now they will deploy out under the flag of their nation and under the rules of the United Nations.

I will agree that there are suspicious things going on behind the scenes with Moira, Charles, Erik, and Sinister. Possibly Apocalypse and Sebastian Shaw as well. Emma, Jean, Storm, Kurt, Scott, and others are acting in good faith and with good intentions toward world peace.

I am sure there will be drama and conflict, but I am going to hope that Krakoa survives these things and remains a free nation. I like that mutants have a sanctuary now, that they can bring up their children in safety and don't have to worry about busloads of children being bombed by racists or by government representatives.

I would honestly compare it more to the Back-to-Africa Movement, which was an abysmal failure because most African-Americans didn't want to go, many were forced and suffered immensely for it.

The truth is that Krakoa has no real world parallel because of the reasons I listed: our world doesn't have the KKK run every major country on the planet like 616 does.

[tuck frump]

Also a good thing we were talking about a theoretical.

Yes but you argued that no real life minority would seize the opportunity to move to a prejudice free paradise if given the chance because of the vague notion they wouldnt be "american" or wherever ppl are from) anymore like theyd lose something in the process. There's plenty of people who find no pride in being american and would gladly get out if it was a possibility. THis storyline is pure escapism for anyone who has to put up with an oppressive society day in and out.

[BroHomo]

Lmao I cant think of one person from a minority group that hasnt dreamed once in their life of flying off to a place where they wouldnt have to deal with racism/homophobia/whatwillhaveyou and just be surrounded by ppl like themselves.

lol riiiiiiight they even have smaller versions of this Utopia which is mostly celebrated ie PRIDE... Sororitys HBU's FRATERNITY'S Comic Cons Black PRIDE

Regarding "Make more mutants", does that automatically happen?

Well first a couple or person decides or like don't decide they want a kid....

Humans can have mutants, so can't mutants have humans? I'm assuming that those mutants who give birth to non-powered humans, those offspring will still be allowed to live on Krakoa.

That's happened like how many times? Once? Twice?

I would honestly compare it more to the Back-to-Africa Movement, which was an abysmal failure because most African-Americans didn't want to go, many were forced and suffered immensely for it.

Er it was a 'failure' cause it didn't do what the "Ally's" were hoping for....getting rid of the Black freed slaves. Jeez a people moving to a different land to escape persecution kiiiinda sounds like a story I heard... something to do with Pilgrims...

The truth is that Krakoa has no real world parallel because of the reasons I listed: our world doesn't have the KKK run every major country on the planet like 616 does.

You should visit southern Alabama

Yes but you argued that no real life minority would seize the opportunity to move to a prejudice free paradise if given the chance because of the vague notion they wouldnt be "american" or wherever ppl are from) anymore like theyd lose something in the process. There's plenty of people who find no pride in being american and would gladly get out if it was a possibility. THis storyline is pure escapism for anyone who has to put up with an oppressive society day in and out.

[spirit2011]

I would honestly compare it more to the Back-to-Africa Movement, which was an abysmal failure because most African-Americans didn't want to go, many were forced and suffered immensely for it.

The truth is that Krakoa has no real world parallel because of the reasons I listed: our world doesn't have the KKK run every major country on the planet like 616 does.

This is my take too. They freed a country on africa just so they could sen african americans to that country.

[PsychoEFrost]

lol riiiiiiight they even have smaller versions of this Utopia which is mostly celebrated ie PRIDE... Sororitys HBU's FRATERNITY'S Comic Cons Black PRIDE


Well first a couple or person decides or like don't decide they want a kid....

That's happened like how many times? Once? Twice?

Er it was a 'failure' cause it didn't do what the "Ally's" were hoping for....getting rid of the Black freed slaves. Jeez a people moving to a different land to escape persecution kiiiinda sounds like a story I heard... something to do with Pilgrims...

You should visit southern Alabama

Yeah, Alabama has a ton of racist rednecks. So do Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia, Texas, and basically every state that was once part of the Confederacy. But the KKK doesn't run England, France, Germany, Italy, or Japan like it does in 616.

Funny you should bring up pilgrims, since they sought to escape the persecution of the church, and went on to practice the most stiflingly dangerous and oppressive form of Christianity the world had ever seen.

[BroHomo]

This is my take too. They freed a country on africa just so they could sen african americans to that country.

They didn't "free" a country they literally carved one out without a thought to the centuries old borders already in existence....but that's Africa for ya

Yeah, Alabama has a ton of racist rednecks. So do Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia, Texas, and basically every state that was once part of the Confederacy. But the KKK doesn't run England, France, Germany, Italy, or Japan like it does in 616.

If a KKK mutant equivalent was in control of all those 616 countries they'd be a lot more strange fruit hanging from the trees

Funny you should bring up pilgrims, since they sought to escape the persecution of the church, and went on to practice the most stiflingly dangerous and oppressive form of Christianity the world had ever seen.

Uh I ain't no Christian

[PsychoEFrost]

They didn't "free" a country they literally carved one out without a thought to the centuries old borders already in existence....but that's Africa for ya

And then they literally did that again to "create" Israel, and destabilized the entire Midden East for 70 years and counting.

[Electricmastro]

I would honestly compare it more to the Back-to-Africa Movement, which was an abysmal failure because most African-Americans didn't want to go, many were forced and suffered immensely for it.

The truth is that Krakoa has no real world parallel because of the reasons I listed: our world doesn't have the KKK run every major country on the planet like 616 does.

And regarding the Jewish minority-parallels, it seems that the writers for Earth-616 haven't take many extra measures in having the Earth-616 humans remember and learn from Genosha like how the real world remembers and learns from the Holocaust. The real world has had many Jewish-related organizations, museums, and many people showing care and concern for the Jews in general in speaking out against those that attempt to persecute the Jews in modern times.

People can list all the awful things the humans of Earth-616 have done against the mutants all they want, but if any of them try to convince me that the treatment and experiences of mutants on Earth-616 is the same as how Jews, as well as black people, have been treated in the real world in modern times, then I'll have to assume they're friggin' joking with me, because for one thing, the lives of minorities in real life aren't dictated by comic book writers.

[PsychoEFrost]

And regarding the Jewish minority-parallels, it seems that the writers for Earth-616 haven't take many extra measures in having the Earth-616 humans remember and learn from Genosha like how the real world remembers and learns from the Holocaust. The real world has had many Jewish-related organizations, museums, and many people showing care and concern for the Jews in general in speaking out against those that attempt to persecute the Jews in modern times.

People can list all the awful things the humans of Earth-616 have done against the mutants all they want, but if any of them try to convince me that the treatment and experiences of mutants on Earth-616 is the same as how Jews, as well as black people, have been treated in the real world in modern times, then I'll have to assume they're friggin' joking with me, because for one thing, the lives of minorities in real life aren't dictated by comic book writers.

I mean, the most abused and suffered character in comic book history has nothing on a real person getting a splinter, simply because the real person actually exists. But that's hardly a controversial stance.