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  1. #5821
    Emma Been Frost Perfection/Emma 2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Yes but you argued that no real life minority would seize the opportunity to move to a prejudice free paradise if given the chance because of the vague notion they wouldnt be "american" or wherever ppl are from) anymore like theyd lose something in the process. There's plenty of people who find no pride in being american and would gladly get out if it was a possibility. THis storyline is pure escapism for anyone who has to put up with an oppressive society day in and out.
    I know I fucking would. Being gay and black (biracial but does really matter to racist?) life can be a damn headache dealing with all types of hateful people
    Yara Flor & Emma "Mama" Frost stan account

  2. #5822

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection/Emma 2 View Post
    I know I fucking would. Being gay and black (biracial but does really matter to racist?) life can be a damn headache dealing with all types of hateful people
    I think that might be why some of us feel so intensely about it is because several of us posting here are minorities and we have experienced prejudice and hate in our day to day lives. I can empathize with the mutants wanting to create a safe haven for their people and to have the hope that they can keep that haven safe. What would we do to have that safe haven for ourselves, what would we sacrifice to obtain it, what would we sacrifice to defend it.

    People in this thread will continually come up with supervillains who have harmed mutants.

    However, that doesn't take away from the fact that the world governments have engaged in an organized attempt to commit genocide against mutants. It's not like they were operating in secret, everyone has seen the Sentinels attacking, rounding up, and killing mutants. Everyone has seen the agents of the government saying how awesome and wonderful the world will be once the X-Gene is completely cured away and our children will never be scary mutants again. Everyone knew that the intention was to forcibly cure all the mutants even if they didn't want the cure. The X-Men had to actually ally with a villain (Dark Beast) to stop the cure, otherwise mutants would have ceased to exist on the Earth as a race.

    Humans don't have a god given right to go to Krakoa!
    Humans don't have a god given right to oppress mutants!
    Humans don't have a god given right to kill mutants!
    Humans don't have a god given right to experiment on mutants!
    Humans don't have a god given right to detain and imprison mutants!
    Humans don't have a god given right to take the rights away from mutants!

    If you want peace and harmony with the mutants then accept their overtures of peace and negotiate a peace treaty in good faith. Earn their respect and they may even allow you to visit their country after they know that they can trust you not to attack them.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  3. #5823
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    No, it is not comparable to Back to Africa because the US in spite of the racist wasn't attacking what is happening in Marvel 616 is more akin to Rwanda or Myanmar because mutants on occasion in mass have been killed or target literally genocide and genocide via sterilization. Black and minority stay in America because despite the bs there are pockets where you can live normally. X-men fighting for equality makes sense, X-men fighting for their very lives ask any refugee why did they leave their country. I have complained over and over the racism in Marvel doesn't make any sense. If X-men/mutants can't live safely in a country the book doesn't work real-life racism isn't that most developed countries yes they are an extreme examples of racism in the world. But if US and countries like that aren't safe enough for mutants and Uncanny show that to be true then the X-men concept is stupid. X-men can't protect mutants because they can't even protect themselves.

    Krakoa makes perfect sense in a world where 16 million mutants died in genocide events. It doesn't matter who caused because the actions after both events prove human intent. It would be equivalent to WW2 someone trying to attack Jews again. Every time mutants numbers have drops humans go let's finish them off. After

    1.Decimation
    2. 198 detainment
    3. Genosha Genocide
    4.Mpox mutant blame game and Terrigen Mist Genocide/Sterilization
    5. US Genocide/Sterilization
    6. Mutants being hunted in Transia

    And many other stuff and think about it because Marvel is stupid this a probably 3 to 5 year stretch of time. Why in the fck wouldn't mutants Go hey we need a timeout from humans until they get their **** together and if don't get their stuff together we are united and ready to counter-attack for their lives? I understand people being turned off by mutants feeling themselves but get back to me when they are killing humans for simply existing and trying to take over the world. Seriously until the Krakoa/Mutants/ X-men do some actually evil (and no throwing mass murder serial killer in pit for eternity does count,) . I am trying to figure out what people are worked up about because all I see

    - Mutants taking responsibility for all those "dangerous" mutant weapons that fans like to say mutants are so that is under control.Thank you Krakoa
    -Mutants have moved most of dangerous mutants villains and criminals on an island,they have to agree to no-kill human law. Thank you Krakoa
    - Mutants are giving humans drugs that extend lives and heal sickness. Thank you Krakoa
    -Mutant's numbers 1 law is not killing humans. Thank you Krakoa

    All you have guys have is mutants "feel" cultish and Marvel equivalent of mutants running saying "Black girl magic".
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-11-2019 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #5824

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    No, it is not comparable to Back to Africa because the US in spite of the racist wasn't attacking what is happening in Marvel 616 is more akin to Rwanda or Myanmar because mutants on occasion in mass have been killed or target literally genocide and genocide via sterilization. Black and minority stay in America because despite the bs there are pockets where you can live normally. X-men fighting for equality makes sense, X-men fighting for their very lives ask any refugee why did they leave their country. I have complained over and over the racism in Marvel doesn't make any sense. If X-men/mutants can't live safely in a country the book doesn't work real-life racism isn't that most developed countries yes they are an extreme examples of racism in the world. But if US and countries like that aren't safe enough for mutants and Uncanny show that to be true then the X-men concept is stupid. X-men can't protect mutants

    Krakoa makes perfect sense in a world where 16 million mutants died in genocide events. It doesn't matter who caused because the actions after both events prove human intent. It would be equivalent to WW2 someone trying to attack Jews again. Every time mutants numbers have drops humans go let's finish them off. After

    1.Decimation
    2. 198 detainment
    3. Genosha Genocide
    4.Mpox mutant blame game and Terrigen Mist Genocide/Sterilization
    5. US Genocide/Sterilization
    6. Mutants being hunted in Transia

    And many other stuff and think about it because Marvel is stupid this a probably 3 to 5 year stretch of time. Why in the fck wouldn't mutants Go hey we need a timeout from humans until they get their **** together and if don't get their stuff together we are united and ready to counter-attack for their lives? I understand people being turned off by mutants feeling themselves but get back to me when they are killing humans for simply existing and trying to take over the world. Seriously until the Krakoa/Mutants/ X-men do some actually evil (and no throwing mass murder serial killer in pit for eternity does count,) . I am trying to figure out what people are worked up about because all I see

    - Mutants taking responsibility for all those "dangerous" mutant weapons that fans like to say mutants are so that is under control.Thank you Krakoa
    -Mutants have moved most of dangerous mutants villains and criminals on an island,they have to agree to no-kill human law. Thank you Krakoa
    - Mutants are giving humans drugs that extend lives and heal sickness. Thank you Krakoa
    -Mutant's numbers 1 law is not killing humans. Thank you Krakoa

    All you have guys have is mutants "feel" cultish and Marvel equivalent of mutants running saying "Black girl magic".
    I love you!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  5. #5825
    Emma Been Frost Perfection/Emma 2's Avatar
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    I'm so glad to be apart of a forum that has posters like RachelGrey and Killerbee911
    Yara Flor & Emma "Mama" Frost stan account

  6. #5826
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    No, it is not comparable to Back to Africa because the US in spite of the racist wasn't attacking what is happening in Marvel 616 is more akin to Rwanda or Myanmar because mutants on occasion in mass have been killed or target literally genocide and genocide via sterilization. Black and minority stay in America because despite the bs there are pockets where you can live normally. X-men fighting for equality makes sense, X-men fighting for their very lives ask any refugee why did they leave their country. I have complained over and over the racism in Marvel doesn't make any sense. If X-men/mutants can't live safely in a country the book doesn't work real-life racism isn't that most developed countries yes they are an extreme examples of racism in the world. But if US and countries like that aren't safe enough for mutants and Uncanny show that to be true then the X-men concept is stupid. X-men can't protect mutants because they can't even protect themselves.

    Krakoa makes perfect sense in a world where 16 million mutants died in genocide events. It doesn't matter who caused because the actions after both events prove human intent. It would be equivalent to WW2 someone trying to attack Jews again. Every time mutants numbers have drops humans go let's finish them off. After

    1.Decimation
    2. 198 detainment
    3. Genosha Genocide
    4.Mpox mutant blame game and Terrigen Mist Genocide/Sterilization
    5. US Genocide/Sterilization
    6. Mutants being hunted in Transia

    And many other stuff and think about it because Marvel is stupid this a probably 3 to 5 year stretch of time. Why in the fck wouldn't mutants Go hey we need a timeout from humans until they get their **** together and if don't get their stuff together we are united and ready to counter-attack for their lives? I understand people being turned off by mutants feeling themselves but get back to me when they are killing humans for simply existing and trying to take over the world. Seriously until the Krakoa/Mutants/ X-men do some actually evil (and no throwing mass murder serial killer in pit for eternity does count,) . I am trying to figure out what people are worked up about because all I see

    - Mutants taking responsibility for all those "dangerous" mutant weapons that fans like to say mutants are so that is under control.Thank you Krakoa
    -Mutants have moved most of dangerous mutants villains and criminals on an island,they have to agree to no-kill human law. Thank you Krakoa
    - Mutants are giving humans drugs that extend lives and heal sickness. Thank you Krakoa
    -Mutant's numbers 1 law is not killing humans. Thank you Krakoa

    All you have guys have is mutants "feel" cultish and Marvel equivalent of mutants running saying "Black girl magic".
    Maybe that trying to fix bad writing with bad writing does no one any favors? That it setup a status quo and "victory" that feels neither earned or that the reader ever had any investment in prior to Hickman's arrival? That retconning nearly the X-Men's entire existence so that Xavier, Magneto, Moira, Apocalypse, Sinister, and others were always looking out for the good guys? Killing the dream that the X-Men have been fighting for since their inception and proving that mutant and human co-habitation is not only not possible, but isn't remotely worth fighting for? Appointing a council of some of the most underhanded and deceitful people without a democratic process, and expecting us to be okay with it? Ignoring milestone character development moments for charts and graphs? Inflicting extreme torture on an enemy for a law they just created?

    Just because mutants are winning shouldn't give a plot this hole-ridden the level of defense and excuses it is getting.

  7. #5827
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Maybe that trying to fix bad writing with bad writing does no one any favors? That it setup a status quo and "victory" that feels neither earned or that the reader ever had any investment in prior to Hickman's arrival? That retconning nearly the X-Men's entire existence so that Xavier, Magneto, Moira, Apocalypse, Sinister, and others were always looking out for the good guys? Killing the dream that the X-Men have been fighting for since their inception and proving that mutant and human co-habitation is not only not possible, but isn't remotely worth fighting for? Appointing a council of some of the most underhanded and deceitful people without a democratic process, and expecting us to be okay with it? Ignoring milestone character development moments for charts and graphs? Inflicting extreme torture on an enemy for a law they just created?

    Just because mutants are winning shouldn't give a plot this hole-ridden the level of defense and excuses it is getting.
    tank you so much, very well said!
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  8. #5828
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    That it setup a status quo and "victory" that feels neither earned or that the reader ever had any investment in prior to Hickman's arrival?
    I'm not sure how the reader would ever have had investment in the status quo prior to Hickman's arrival, seeing as his arrival is what heralded the status quo.

    I don't know why people are acting like the first time there's been a timejump.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    That retconning nearly the X-Men's entire existence so that Xavier, Magneto, Moira, Apocalypse, Sinister, and others were always looking out for the good guys?
    They really haven't retconned anything about Sinister's approach over the years. He's just gone with being a shitbag to a shitbag they can use.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Appointing a council of some of the most underhanded and deceitful people without a democratic process, and expecting us to be okay with it?
    Sounds like standard-issue politics to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Ignoring milestone character development moments for charts and graphs?
    The data pages did not take the place of story pages.

  9. #5829
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I'm not sure how the reader would ever have had investment in the status quo prior to Hickman's arrival, seeing as his arrival is what heralded the status quo.

    I don't know why people are acting like the first time there's been a timejump.



    They really haven't retconned anything about Sinister's approach over the years. He's just gone with being a shitbag to a shitbag they can use.



    Sounds like standard-issue politics to me.



    The data pages did not take the place of story pages.
    Hickman's "victory" was never foreshadowed, never mentioned, and just happens out of nowhere with virtually zero resistance. Mutants go from "about to be extinct" to "undisputed masters of planet Earth" in a mini. If you don't see how that's a massive storytelling problem, especially for the mainline universe, I don't know what to tell you.

    The rest of your issues with my post are nitpicks. My point stands.

    As of right now, there is zero reason why the mutants don't just take over the planet. Their entire army is functionally immortal, they have no less than 15 mutants that could destroy entire countries by themselves, and the humans have shown that they absolutely deserve to be annihilated with around 80% of the humans being overt racists that even Fox News would ask them to tone it back a bit. When the only reason the plot doesn't end is "because the writer doesn't want it to"... THAT'S BAD WRITING.

  10. #5830

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection/Emma 2 View Post
    I'm so glad to be apart of a forum that has posters like RachelGrey and Killerbee911
    awe <hugs>

    I love you too Perfection!!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  11. #5831
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I'm not sure how the reader would ever have had investment in the status quo prior to Hickman's arrival, seeing as his arrival is what heralded the status quo.

    I don't know why people are acting like the first time there's been a timejump.



    They really haven't retconned anything about Sinister's approach over the years. He's just gone with being a shitbag to a shitbag they can use.



    Sounds like standard-issue politics to me.



    The data pages did not take the place of story pages.
    Don't bother. They've already made up their mind that what Hickman is doing is sacrilege against the X-Men

  12. #5832
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Don't bother. They've already made up their mind that what Hickman is doing is sacrilege against the X-Men
    Just like you've already decided to ignore any and all criticism at the flawless hands of God-Emperor Hickman?

  13. #5833
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Maybe that trying to fix bad writing with bad writing does no one any favors? That it setup a status quo and "victory" that feels neither earned or that the reader ever had any investment in prior to Hickman's arrival? That retconning nearly the X-Men's entire existence so that Xavier, Magneto, Moira, Apocalypse, Sinister, and others were always looking out for the good guys? Killing the dream that the X-Men have been fighting for since their inception and proving that mutant and human co-habitation is not only not possible, but isn't remotely worth fighting for? Appointing a council of some of the most underhanded and deceitful people without a democratic process, and expecting us to be okay with it? Ignoring milestone character development moments for charts and graphs? Inflicting extreme torture on an enemy for a law they just created?

    Just because mutants are winning shouldn't give a plot this hole-ridden the level of defense and excuses it is getting.
    Is the plot holes any bigger than other X-men story? You literally have the avatar of character if we sat down with a little critical thinking wouldn't sniff being near the X-men IvX and Rosenberg Uncanny happened. I am just saying the same way you will go to bat for Emma,We are going to bat for general elements of the story.

    I am not mad people for disagreeing the story is design to do this, But the absolute argument of Good and Evil are silly in discussing this story and they are some people doing that and plus they are some people in pockets of pretty insane/borderline near racist arguments in defense of their point of view. I am fine with you and others feel discomfort and mistrust of what is happening because that is what is suppose to be happening. The problem begins we people try to go X-men are definitively evil, No the X-men are doing good but some questionable things also happening in the name of good. Robin Hood is a clear hero but Robin Hood was stealing and breaking the law. That is where this story is playing, I don't need my heroes to always have the moral high ground. I always bring the atomic bomb because it is one of clearest, "Good things" that did a really messed up thing.

    Yes you are supposed to feel uncomfortable with things, No those things don't total define everything that is happening. The overall picture is imo clearly more good than bad. We are checking the X-men on the moral high ground, Xavier, Wolverine, Magneto, Cyclops, Emma, Rogue, Gambit, Bishop, Cable, Hope, and others shouldn't even be on the team. Where is the line for this stuff?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-11-2019 at 10:30 PM.

  14. #5834
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Just like you've already decided to ignore any and all criticism at the flawless hands of God-Emperor Hickman?
    I like Hickman as a writer he's probably one of my favorite comic book writers at the moment and I do love what he's doing with the X-Men however that doesn't make me some mindless drone/Hickman fanboy as you keep on insinuating with every poster that that has a problem with your hyperbolic hate boner for what he's doing. I have had several criticism with HoX and PoX but for me the pros far out weigh the cons.

  15. #5835
    Make it plain please... Silver Phoenix's Avatar
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    I'm not to particular with the whole "mutants vs humanity" plot (bored with it actually) that seems to be the overall theme Marvel wants to go with going forward. Hickman seems like he has really put thought and heart into the story he is trying to tell and I do appreciate that.

    No, this isn't the X-Men I have come to know and love but circumstances within the narrative have brought them to where they are now so... I will give the story a chance.

    It's nothing to lose sleep over to those who are disturbed about this storyline... this is fiction after all.
    "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."- Jesus
    John 14:6

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