House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[tuck frump]

So its a retcon. How will we comicbook readers ever cope with such a thing.

[PsychoEFrost]

So its a retcon. How will we comicbook readers ever cope with such a thing.

Rectonning an overwhelming victory for all mutantkind versus actually having it happen organically might work for you, but I would suspect you're in the minority.

[Slicknickshady]

I’m so glad this series is over. I enjoyed it but it’s truly been overhyped. It’s no better than Guggenheims run, Bunn’s run, Rosenbergs run, or Age of X. Each of these have been very good. I hate the people crapping on the others for no reason. Hickman is truly overhyped.

[numberthirty]

Please show me where Moira being a mutant and using her lives to engineer the lives of the X-Men was shown at any point before Hickman's arrival.

If you can't, then I am correct: that all of this stuff was never foreshadowed, never mentioned, and is part of Hickman simply declaring mutants the winner in his own series.

You're kidding around, right?

[Havok83]

Some thoughts , My only issue is The make-up of the council , Sinister and Apocalypse have killed and murdered countless people for their own personal benefit , I don't get how they are being evolved. I also have issues with them housing Emplate, It all seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I'm also not sure how every mutant being an X-Men makes sense in the long run , They should just have one solid X-Men team of about 20 rotating characters. I'm hoping they use Hope to repower Prodigy , Wind Dancer and Specter + most of the deceased students (Sucks Preview can't come to Krakoa)

They can not do the resurrections without Sinister. He is on the council bc he holds incredible power. Apocalypse was a major ally of Moira's in a past life so she knows the value of having him on their side. His ego wouldnt allow him to be anything less than a figure of power on Krakoa

You're kidding around, right?

He's not exactly wrong. There was no foreshadowing to HoX/PoX's new status quo. The closest thing we got was the final issue of Soule's Astonishing X-men with Xavier leaving for parts unknown with a new dream but the very next time we see him in the annual, thats not really followed up (and most certainly didnt set the stage for HoX). The last thing we got of the X-men was Rosenberg's Uncanny X-men and HoX picks up months later with a radically different world

[PsychoEFrost]

They can not do the resurrections without Sinister. He is on the council bc he holds incredible power. Apocalypse was a major ally of Moira's in a past life so she knows the value of having him on their side. His ego wouldnt allow him to be anything less than a figure of power on Krakoa



He's not exactly wrong. There was no foreshadowing to HoX/PoX's new status quo. The closest thing we got was the final issue of Soule's Astonishing X-men with Xavier leaving for parts unknown with a new dream but the very next time we see him in the annual, thats not really followed up (and most certainly didnt set the stage for HoX). The last thing we got of the X-men was Rosenberg's Uncanny X-men and HoX picks up months later with a radically different world

Exactly this.

[numberthirty]

He's not exactly wrong. There was no foreshadowing to HoX/PoX's new status quo. The closest thing we got was the final issue of Soule's Astonishing X-men with Xavier leaving for parts unknown with a new dream but the very next time we see him in the annual, thats not really followed up (and most certainly didnt set the stage for HoX). The last thing we got of the X-men was Rosenberg's Uncanny X-men and HoX picks up months later with a radically different world

Politely, have to disagree there.

If we are talking in terms of "At Any Point Before Hickman's Arrival...", there are absolutely things that pointed to her involvement in the new status quo.


- Silent partner in Xavier founding the school.
- There to help Xavier in a young Jean Grey's recovery.
- Rescued and adopted Rahne Sinclair
- Just happened to rescue time traveler Cable in a similar fashion.

While I guess someone could try to shrug those off, think about Uncanny X-Men #167. Take a minute to seriously consider what happens to Charles in that issue.

You are really going to say that there was no point where any of this might have been foreshadowed having read that issue?

Come on.

[PsychoEFrost]

Politely, have to disagree there.

If we are talking in terms of "At Any Point Before Hickman's Arrival...", there are absolutely things that pointed to her involvement in the new status quo.


- Silent partner in Xavier founding the school.
- There to help Xavier in a young Jean Grey's recovery.
- Rescued and adopted Rahne Sinclair
- Just happened to rescue time traveler Cable in a similar fashion.

While I guess someone could try to shrug those off, think about Uncanny X-Men #167. Take a minute to seriously consider what happens to Charles in that issue.

You are really going to say that there was no point where any of this might have been foreshadowed having read that issue?

Come on.

You're talking correlation, not causation. Hickman adapted his story to use previous elements of the X-Men, but to say any of this was foreshadowed is incorrect.

[PrezValentine]

Is it really relevant if it was foreshadowed, though? As in, is enjoyment of the HoX/PoX and the Dawn of X absolutely reliant on the idea that? I can't relate to the feeling, so it's an honest question.

[numberthirty]

You're talking correlation, not causation. Hickman adapted his story to use previous elements of the X-Men, but to say any of this was foreshadowed is incorrect.

Sure.

That they used a precursor to the current means to essentially make mutants immortal was not foreshadowing. Never mind that it was Moira who did it.

You are insisting that "Six" is actually "Half A Dozen".

It was foreshadowed. Just not in the exact fashion that you would like.

[Woozie]

I think that's just a Hickman gripe you gotta live with. Cause he does the same thing in his Avengers run and Ultimates. He'll do several time skips in order to justify the status quo his characters are in without actually doing the foundation basis. You kinda just have to take it or leave it.

[PsychoEFrost]

Sure.

That they used a precursor to the current means to essentially make mutants immortal was not foreshadowing. Never mind that it was Moira who did it.

You are insisting that "Six" is actually "Half A Dozen".

It was foreshadowed. Just not in the exact fashion that you would like.

If that is what counts as "foreshadowing" for you, you could literally say any possible story ever with the X-Men has been "foreshadowed" by the crazy amount of stuff that has happened to the X-Men over their publication history. Taking entirely unconnected events and giving them greater meaning to tell your story is not foreshadowing.

[Havok83]

Politely, have to disagree there.

If we are talking in terms of "At Any Point Before Hickman's Arrival...", there are absolutely things that pointed to her involvement in the new status quo.


- Silent partner in Xavier founding the school.
- There to help Xavier in a young Jean Grey's recovery.
- Rescued and adopted Rahne Sinclair
- Just happened to rescue time traveler Cable in a similar fashion.

While I guess someone could try to shrug those off, think about Uncanny X-Men #167. Take a minute to seriously consider what happens to Charles in that issue.

You are really going to say that there was no point where any of this might have been foreshadowed having read that issue?

Come on.

Thats not foreshadowing. Foreshadowing implies that this stuff was done with the intent for a reveal later and that was not the case. Everything Hickman has done has been massive retcons using bits and pieces of history

[PsychoEFrost]

I think that's just a Hickman gripe you gotta live with. Cause he does the same thing in his Avengers run and Ultimates. He'll do several time skips in order to justify the status quo his characters are in without actually doing the foundation basis. You kinda just have to take it or leave it.

I feel that's a real problem. Especially in a connected medium. If you can't tell your story with what has recently been written and instead pushing the reset button a few times, that's a weakness as a writer.

[Woozie]

I feel that's a real problem. Especially in a connected medium. If you can't tell your story with what has recently been written and instead pushing the reset button a few times, that's a weakness as a writer.

In some cases I agree and in others I'm like "Sure lemme see where this goes." but I also don't think any of those are his strongest comics with Marvel.

There's a pretty big gap between FF and Secret Warriors and the rest of them.