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  1. #6046
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Wakanda, as written in the earlies and not under the current guy, is awesome! So if that's what Xavier and Erik are going for then...OMGODDESS, yes-fockin-please!!!
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  2. #6047
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    When have they ever diverged to this extent?

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but what part of "peaceful coexistence between humans and mutants" needed to change?

    Finally, if the dream was so stupid and pointless... WHY WERE YOU FOLLOWING THE X-MEN!?!?!?!?!?
    The part where humans routinely made murder bots to wipe mutants and their kids off the map and the part where the mutants continually made themselves sitting ducks. In this story alone both of those problems took a massive hit.

    Peaceful coexistence doesn't just have to be mutants and flats sitting around a campfire singing kumbaya. Eventually boundaries had to be made. The human majority responded to coexistence with mutants with deportation, large scale massacres, and sterilization via government funded vaccinations.

    Something has to give. The dream itself isn't the problem it's how Xavier went about acheiveing his dream that was foolish and could be considered insane, but in light of the most recent retcon he seems like less of an insane person and more of a sadist....which is fine.

  3. #6048
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    You might not, some others might. I don't think that's really the fun part. The most amusing and logical? Yes, certainly. At some point, somebody would have to portray the X-Men as exposed to too much grief to stick to Xavier's philosophy. There would be people trying to make him look like the worst thing to happen right after Rosenberg if he insisted on the first dream of Xavier.

    Second, in the same manner his Avengers run started with the idea that everything dies and you can't win your enemy but only "not lose", to end on a very optimistic note, where it's shown how kindness and willingness to improve are far more effective than cynicism, Hickman might be setting things up to show that there are, indeed, ways to achieve coexistence.

    Of course, I suppose we shouldn't consider the idea that what we saw in the prologue might not be the entirety of what the writer wants to achieve, and there might be more to come. So, you can just dismiss whatever I said, if that's good with you.
    Unlike my favorite characters, I cannot read minds. Hickman's run could end up being the greatest thing to ever happen to comic books. It could also be a uranium-laced turd that this site begs editorial to get rid of. So in lieu of that, we can only debate what we've seen.

  4. #6049
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Its certainly implied he is stacking the deck. By manipulating who and how we don't know.
    I totally want an issue in which the X-Men ask Xavier to take off the helmet for literally five seconds only to have him spend the next twenty pages explaining why he totally can't and there's nothing suspicious about it.

  5. #6050
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    I won't deny that. I think it's an exciting thing to consider.

    Can he stick the landing to this premise? That's the question and I'm engaged with finding out. It has literally been decades for this X-fan since I've felt this engaged. Book sales seem to indicate it's bringing a lot of people back. That's a good thing. Now let's see if Hickman can make it work.
    i'm not sure if i'm find it exciting, it change x-men stories into the core. Completely redefines x-men

    Well let's see if the people will continue to read it, it's just the start
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  6. #6051
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but what part of "peaceful coexistence between humans and mutants" needed to change?
    Every single time, that leads to mutantkind's extinction.

  7. #6052
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Thats the exact quote. Thats not the same as Xaviers dream
    We must prove ourselves a peaceful people. We must give the ordinary humans respect, compliance, and understanding. And we must never mistake that for trust.

    Xavier was all in. Constantly trying to put mutants in harms way so that humans would be appeased and one day turn around and say oh you guys aren't so bad. Which us just not within human nature.

    And niether is Havoks call me Alex I'm just like you. Being a mutant shouldn't define you
    So Xavier's dream was to never ever mildly inconvenience humans? Those times where they beat up the Purifiers, the Friends of Humanity, or the Sentinels were just fantasy?

    You seem to think that Xavier's dream was non-violent pacifism when that was never the case.

  8. #6053
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Every single time, that leads to mutantkind's extinction.
    all paths leads to mutantx extinction.

    the less awful future was when mutants and heroes went together to defeat Magneto
    Zethrimon unblock me

  9. #6054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Every single time, that leads to mutantkind's extinction.
    And who wrote that to be the 100% absolutely defined case?

    People are acting like this is a chance for hope and change for mutants, but Hickman established that mutants are in worse dire straits than ever before. That their annihilation is an absolute certainty without Moira's extreme intervention. It's the same setup for Rosenberg's run, just with charts, graphs, and better writing.

  10. #6055
    Mighty Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    The part where humans routinely made murder bots to wipe mutants and their kids off the map and the part where the mutants continually made themselves sitting ducks. In this story alone both of those problems took a massive hit.

    Peaceful coexistence doesn't just have to be mutants and flats sitting around a campfire singing kumbaya. Eventually boundaries had to be made. The human majority responded to coexistence with mutants with deportation, large scale massacres, and sterilization via government funded vaccinations.
    Also the part where they learned mutants have been exterminated in Moira's multiple lives.

    "Flats". I like that.
    For the children, the wardrobe, and which one of these is a mimosa tree? Krakoa forever!

  11. #6056
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    i'm not sure if i'm find it exciting, it change x-men stories into the core. Completely redefines x-men

    Well let's see if the people will continue to read it, it's just the start
    It's totally ok that you don't. Different strokes for different folks.

    For me, this doesn't redefine the X-men at all. They are still not harming humans, they've just stopped pretending they can live among them after so many genocidal actions against them. It's sorta naive to expect their dream to never change no matter how many tens of thousands of them are killed isn't it?

    They are still heroes, they've just gone from acting like Superman to acting more like Batman. After what they've been through? Makes total sense. I'm excited to see them working in different combinations and with different ends than we've ever seen before.

  12. #6057
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    So Xavier's dream was to never ever mildly inconvenience humans? Those times where they beat up the Purifiers, the Friends of Humanity, or the Sentinels were just fantasy?

    You seem to think that Xavier's dream was non-violent pacifism when that was never the case.
    That was the case. Despite having students crucified on his lawn his dream was peaceful coexistence and to expect the mutant community to turn the other cheek and absorb the pain so they can demonstrate that they're a peaceful people.

    The one thing the Dark Phoenix movie got right was Xavier The scene where Jennifer Lawrence calls out Charles Xavier ready to jump at the behest of humans for personal glory. Is exactly how Xavier behaves

    The X-Men were proactive on mutant threats when Xavier was not in power e.g. Cyclops and Storm

  13. #6058
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    That was the case. Despite having students crucified on his lawn his dream was peaceful coexistence and to expect the mutant community to turn the other cheek and absorb the pain so they can demonstrate that they're a peaceful people.

    The one thing the Dark Phoenix movie got right was Xavier The scene where Jennifer Lawrence calls out Charles Xavier ready to jump at the behest of humans for personal glory. Is exactly how Xavier behaves

    The X-Men were proactive on mutant threats when Xavier was not in power e.g. Cyclops and Storm
    See, I can understand why you want Xavier's dream to be abandoned... because you never understood it.

    Xavier's philosophy (at least in the comics) has been the Teddy Roosevelt status: speak softly, and carry a big stick. To not go out of their way to make lives harder for humans, but to be ready to defend themselves from humans. And that by only retaliating, they can show that mutant/human coexistence is possible.

  14. #6059
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    See, I can understand why you want Xavier's dream to be abandoned... because you never understood it.

    Xavier's philosophy (at least in the comics) has been the Teddy Roosevelt status: speak softly, and carry a big stick. To not go out of their way to make lives harder for humans, but to be ready to defend themselves from humans. And that by only retaliating, they can show that mutant/human coexistence is possible.
    How is that different from what Krakoa is doing? They aren't at war with any human nations on Earth, just the rogue organization Orchis that declared war on them first

  15. #6060
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    It's totally ok that you don't. Different strokes for different folks.

    For me, this doesn't redefine the X-men at all. They are still not harming humans, they've just stopped pretending they can live among them after so many genocidal actions against them. It's sorta naive to expect their dream to never change no matter how many tens of thousands of them are killed isn't it?

    They are still heroes, they've just gone from acting like Superman to acting more like Batman. After what they've been through? Makes total sense. I'm excited to see them working in different combinations and with different ends than we've ever seen before.
    No one saying the dream can't change. But a total 180, is very crazy.
    if it never mattered so why Xavier pushed it for decades? really dumb thing to do

    I don't think they are doing batman neither.
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