House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[fotofanatic28]

So you don’t know either? It looks like the pre fantomex Prof X to me. I was just curious who you guys thought it was meant to be

[Kisinith]

Because no one wants to listen. Everyone keeps arguing past each other and arguing points we come up with on the spot (myself included, something I need to work on).

It's frustrating because this was promised as the future of mutants and the future of X-Men comics, and what we got was them lighting Xavier's dream up like a candle and dancing around the ashes.

How? What have they done that destroys Xavier's dream? Peaceful coexistence can't happen if one side is dead or "cured".

They haven't dropped coexistence, they incentivized it. Stop murdering our people get these amazing life altering new medicines.
They are still protecting normal people from dangerous mutants (Sabertooth, the laws).

Yes there are things that can and probably will go badly. Yes, there are things about Krakoa that are more sinister than they anticipate. Yes Xavier and Magneto are shady, manipulative and probably broken... None of that is new. HoX/PoX has been a narrative reset pieces and characters have been fixed and moved about but beyond Moira, so far nobody has been fundamentally altered. <--- All of that, fodder for future stories.

[PsychoEFrost]

I guess this is the point of disagreement that we aren't going to be able to overcome.

I feel like Dawn of X has reinvigorated the franchise and found a new way to tell stories about mutants that still works within existing canon. But it's because I like a lot of what is being presented.
1. I like that the mutants are finally establishing an independent nation to stand on the world stage with humans as equals.
2. I like that the are taking a concept I always wanted explored more, Emma Frost and the Hellfire Club and they are making these things a critical part of the new direction.
3. I love that Jean, Emma, and Elizabeth all get something to do at the same time and not one of them is getting written out or sidelined (<sob> Rachel) and it gives me a hopeful feeling to see all the X-Men celebrating together and united again.

But I understand your feelings on this, I really do, I just don't agree and I don't think I will ever agree. This new era of X-Men comics, I am all in on this and I will read as many of the books as I can afford to buy monthly and the rest I will read on Marvel Unlimited because I want to follow this story and explore all aspects of it.

I suppose a lot of what bothers me with the new status is stuff people are used to with Hickman. I've never read his stuff prior to this. So a lot of the issues I have are stuff that Hickman just does when he's brought in (massive reshaping of the mythos, huge retcons and time skips to setup his story, placing story aspects far above base characterization). And God knows everyone is sick of extinction plot after extinction plot, myself included.

The change itself doesn't bother me, the route to the change does. But I still proclaim that it is hard to cheer for these X-Men now that Hickman has given them essential immortality and unified the most powerful mutants in existence in one place.

[RachelGrey]

I suppose a lot of what bothers me with the new status is stuff people are used to with Hickman. I've never read his stuff prior to this. So a lot of the issues I have are stuff that Hickman just does when he's brought in (massive reshaping of the mythos, huge retcons and time skips to setup his story, placing story aspects far above base characterization). And God knows everyone is sick of extinction plot after extinction plot, myself included.

The change itself doesn't bother me, the route to the change does. But I still proclaim that it is hard to cheer for these X-Men now that Hickman has given them essential immortality and unified the most powerful mutants in existence in one place.

I think the resurrection protocol is an attempt to keep writers from indiscriminately killing X-characters off without a frigging good reason. Like killing a bunch of female characters to serve the manpain of Logan and Scott and not to explore the actual pain of those female characters, and yet on the other hand the male characters all get to die in heroic battle, if still completely unnecessary.

I also think that the X-Men are not isolating themselves from the world, they are creating a safe and secure haven, and now they can help save the world while also working to keep their haven/country safe from invasions or internal threats.

When Genosha was established as a free mutant nation I always wanted to see some or all of the X-books based out of that country, and I can see that now with Krakoa. Also, Magneto isn't running this country by himself, they have a council of 12 empowered to make decisions and become a nascent transitional government, with a variety of voices on that council so that all opinions can be presented openly in front of everyone.

[PsychoEFrost]

I think the resurrection protocol is an attempt to keep writers from indiscriminately killing X-characters off without a frigging good reason. Like killing a bunch of female characters to serve the manpain of Logan and Scott and not to explore the actual pain of those female characters, and yet on the other hand the male characters all get to die in heroic battle, if still completely unnecessary.

I also think that the X-Men are not isolating themselves from the world, they are creating a safe and secure haven, and now they can help save the world while also working to keep their haven/country safe from invasions or internal threats.

When Genosha was established as a free mutant nation I always wanted to see some or all of the X-books based out of that country, and I can see that now with Krakoa. Also, Magneto isn't running this country by himself, they have a council of 12 empowered to make decisions and become a nascent transitional government, with a variety of voices on that council so that all opinions can be presented openly in front of everyone.

My concern is that it will turn the X-Men into Kennys, with them dying repeatedly to accomplish missions. That would be really dumb, and I find it hard to imagine it actually happening, but the possibility is there.

[RachelGrey]

My concern is that it will turn the X-Men into Kennys, with them dying repeatedly to accomplish missions. That would be really dumb, and I find it hard to imagine it actually happening, but the possibility is there.

OMG THEY KILLED EMMA!!

haha, sorry I couldn't resist. you gave me too funny of a lead up!

[Woozie]

Biggest gripe you can levy at HoX/PoX is that it's the most stereotypically Hickman a book has ever been.

It's like Hickman's version of Scorsese' Casino. It's real good if you've never seen another Hickman book. It's real derivative if you have.

[Devaishwarya]

I beg to differ...I've read his other works and I liked and enjoyed them to varying degrees...fully aware of his ticks and tacks.
But with HoX/PoX, eventhough I had a notion of what he would do....I think he's surpassed his previous works from an execution standpoint, overall.
Yes...he employed his usual writing scheme but when applied to this particular franchise it just seemed to work and work very well.

[Woozie]

Odd, cause I fully think Hickman's X-work is easily his worst Marvel outting, by a substantial degree. Nothing in this comes close to Time Runs Out or the Council of Reeds in terms of tension and climax.

[spirit2011]

Biggest gripe you can levy at HoX/PoX is that it's the most stereotypically Hickman a book has ever been.

It's like Hickman's version of Scorsese' Casino. It's real good if you've never seen another Hickman book. It's real derivative if you have.

I think it is different, care to explain the similarities

[Devaishwarya]

And I found the Council of Reeds while it had some really good moments, to be tedious and overwrought. And he quiteblost my attention towards the end of Time Runs Out.
So...not odd at all. Just that we obviously expect/appreciate different things even from the same writer.

[Woozie]

I think it is different, care to explain the similarities

Good men forced to do Not good things in the desire for a good end.

Excessive use of alternate futures/timelines

Clones/Alternate selves

OCs used to establish stakes and potential threats based on really old underused Marvel properties

Super organizations that take what the characters were originally doing and supersize it.

Working with long established villains/adversaries to a common end

Stakes that are immeasurably, uncomfortably high

Hell the "You have new gods now" line is straight lifted from his Avengers run.

[spirit2011]

Good men forced to do Not good things in the desire for a good end.

Excessive use of alternate futures/timelines

Clones/Alternate selves

OCs used to establish stakes and potential threats based on really old underused Marvel properties

Super organizations that take what the characters were originally doing and supersize it.

Working with long established villains/adversaries to a common end

Stakes that are immeasurably, uncomfortably high

Hell the "You have new gods now" line is straight lifted from his Avengers run.

Now I can see it. At least for Avengers, some of it was build on FF, and both of avengers and FF were a lot more straight forward

[Wolverine12]

Holy cow that was quite the read through! A lot of interesting takes on the series' now that they are done. I am definitely in the camp that firmly enjoyed this from start to finish, but I can see where PsychoEFrost and Spirit are coming from. The idea that Moira has been manipulating so many big decisions from both Xavier and Erik is a big retcon and if you apply it liberally than it calls into question Xavier's motivation from the point he met Moira. On the other hand we have decades of stories that show Professor X explicitly working for peaceful co-habitation which is pretty much counter productive to Moira's endgame (at least as far as we know as of now). To me that shows, and I think Hickman did this brillantly with Moira's journal entries, that there were definitely times when the 3 went their own paths and haven't been working towards the Krokoa complex.

I think that Charles and Magneto have finally set some of their arrogance aside and decided to really invest in Moira's methods. They both are men of great power and thought they could avoid their doom by their own had, but as that has been dis-proven time and again they felt it might be best to come back together. I also have a strong feeling that Professor and Erik will have things come crashing down around their heads because of their arrogance, but that is yet to be seen.

I know a few posters have found the X-Men difficult to root for and that is understandable given the resurrection protocols, if there is no risk why be invested? Well there is risk outside of just death, such as the tentative society crumbling before it gets off the ground. Even still the system of resurrection seems very fragile to me. If the humans/villains whoever can gather intel on Krakoa and then infiltrate the island what is stopping them from destroying the pods/husks? The X-Men immortality seems to me to be an extremely fragile thing and I'm sure Hickman will address that moving forward. The X-Men have built strong holds before and been defeated despite having psychics and Magneto's and ultra powered beings. This change doesn't make the X-Men omnipotent or omniscient.

Personally I like pragmatism in my comics much more than absolute good. It's why I prefer Wolverine to Spider-man, sometimes there just isn't a better way and a hard choice must be made. To me that ideology is a little bit of the real world set in a very much not real setting. The whole X-Men team is playing it that way for possibly the first time ever and I am interested in seeing where it goes. That doesn't mean I want to see Cyclops blowing people's heads off just because he can, but being proactive and taking out threats before they can take you out I am very much okay with. Given the entire history of Human/Mutant relations I think we are beyond time when it is time to try a new approach. Sure Xavier had to give up his dream for this but I'm okay with that, sometimes a dream is nothing more than, well a dream.

[Stormultt Divine]

Because no one wants to listen. Everyone keeps arguing past each other and arguing points we come up with on the spot (myself included, something I need to work on).

It's frustrating because this was promised as the future of mutants and the future of X-Men comics, and what we got was them lighting Xavier's dream up like a candle and dancing around the ashes.

I sort of get it but to be fair, the 'dream' has been getting lit up for the last few years, All Hickman did was put the final nail in...with severe force.
There's still a future for x-men though, one that looks very interesting.