House of X & Powers of 10 discussion

[Killerbee911]

No it doesn't; Moira herself says so during one of Senator Kelly's speech, during his election campaign. To quote: "Mutants are human ye daft git."

If, as Hickman says, every X-men story matters, including this one, then is this now considered to be a retcon rather than re-contextualisation? Especially if this occurred within life 10 and even after Moira had committed herself to this path?

No Marvel and writers go back forth between ideas like I said they don't seem to know what mutants are suppose to be sometimes.

[Wiccan]

The same way two humans would have a mutant child...like Kate e.g. it's quite random.

I don't think it's the same. Of course mutants can just be born from random parents, but when it comes to mutants having children, the usual is for them to inherit at least one of their parents' powers(like how all the Grey-Summers kids have TP/TK like Jean), which can only be explained by them getting the X-Gene from their parents' DNA rather than by chance like mutants born out of humans.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

No Marvel and writers go back forth between ideas like I said they don't seem to know what mutants are suppose to be sometimes.

Well I don't agree on that; maybe in a meta-sense Marvel has tried to flip flop, but it doesn't change their core origin. Mutants were created as an off-shoot of humanity, not a separate or alien species. If they can be born from humans and give birth to humans, then they are human.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I don't think it's the same. Of course mutants can just be born from random parents, but when it comes to mutants having children, the usual is for them to inherit at least one of their parents' powers(like how all the Grey-Summers kids have TP/TK like Jean), which can only be explained by them getting the X-Gene from their parents' DNA rather than by chance like mutants born out of humans.

True, but you do also get the Graydon Creed's of the world; powerless despite having two fairly powerful parents themselves.

[Devaishwarya]

I know the classification and theory is all over the place but for simplicity... I'm sticking with the Mutants are humans with an extra special x-gene.
Like: a man with extra toes and fingers, or having red hair, heterochromia or a genius brain.
Their baseline genetic make-up is human...but with a genetic "anomaly".

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I know the classification and theory is all over the place but for simplicity... I'm sticking with the Mutants are humans with an extra special x-gene.
Like: a man with extra toes and fingers, or having red hair, heterochromia or a genius brain.
Their baseline genetic make-up is human...but with a genetic "anomaly".

Ditto! Couldn't agree more, in fact!

[FIGHT]

Well I don't agree on that; maybe in a meta-sense Marvel has tried to flip flop, but it doesn't change their core origin. Mutants were created as an off-shoot of humanity, not a separate or alien species. If they can be born from humans and give birth to humans, then they are human.

Dogs and Wolves. 2 different things. 1 is an off-shoot species, yet they can still have kids. Their situation is not unique. Look up Coydog.

[JKtheMac]

Namor certainly seemed to think so.

That is based upon Charles’ current mindset not a canon thing.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Dogs and Wolves. 2 different things. 1 is an off-shoot species, yet they can still have kids. Their situation is not unique. Look up Coydog.

Yes, I agree. They are different and unique, but not completely disconnected. Much of a wolf's instincts are what even lead to the dogs we know today's behaviour patterns and emotional evolutions. Different in some ways, similar in others; especially on base-genetics.

[JKtheMac]

He never believed on his dream after meeting Moira

That’s your interpretation and it contradicts the book so not many will share it. Hickman is clearly indicating this isn’t the case and that Moira spent a long while trying to convince him to change his dream. I mean did you just not read the text pages?

To me, Xavier's speech in House of X #6 read to me that it took until the modern era for Xavier to finally come around to Moira's point of view, even knowing what he knew.

Absolutely.

[Fokken]

The division among X-fans resulting from HoX/PoX is FASCINATING.

Some believe the Krakoan nation forfeits the X-Men from being "good guys".
Some believe the Krakoan nation is revolutionary.
Some believe this is too drastic a departure from "The Dream".
Some argue the dream died long ago and this is a pragmatic approach.
Some believe its high time they stopped taking it on the chin.
Some believe losing the underdog status lessens their appeal.
And so on and so on.

I wonder: With Hox/Pox being the phenomenon that it is -- bringing new readers & bringing BACK readers long lost -- how many of these beliefs/opinions on either side feel more drastic by the LACK of back-issue-content?
How many of the opinions arguing against Krakoa are folks who stopped reading long ago, and therefore lack additional context to potentially inform/guide/shape this shift? And vice versa.

Krakoa's evolution will be very intriguing to watch unfold, as will the readership's evolving acceptance/rejection and all that's in between. Feels like the Utopia days, which I absolutely loved.
Scott banded together with known "villains" to form a sovereign nation, offering their services TO humanity while embracing a zero tolerance policy OF humanity.
And now we have Krakoa.
Krakoa is populated by mutants who fought FOR humanity and by mutants who fought AGAINST humanity.
Heroes and villains, if we're to use very black and white terms. Then again INTENT/MOTIVATION for being radicalized is, in my humble opinion, essential in determining and understanding "villainy".


The division among X-fans mirrors that of Krakoa's populace. haha.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I wonder: With Hox/Pox being the phenomenon that it is -- bringing new readers & bringing BACK readers long lost -- how many of these beliefs/opinions on either side feel more drastic by the LACK of back-issue-content?

I can only speak for myself here, but having gone in with the back-issue content, I'm convinced more than ever of skipping the main-line book. This feels like an epic retcon, not a re-contextualisation.

[JKtheMac]

Odd, cause I fully think Hickman's X-work is easily his worst Marvel outting, by a substantial degree. Nothing in this comes close to Time Runs Out or the Council of Reeds in terms of tension and climax.

Those are endings. This is a beginning, they don’t compare.

[Killerbee911]

Well I don't agree on that; maybe in a meta-sense Marvel has tried to flip flop, but it doesn't change their core origin. Mutants were created as an off-shoot of humanity, not a separate or alien species. If they can be born from humans and give birth to humans, then they are human.

This is not hill I care to fight on other than to point out which presentation they are on at the time. Right now it looks like the species push under Hickman. Once again Mutants stuff is wonky, The fiction should be more clear but the longer Hickman is on the book the more likely that will happen. Humans with a different genes not even that holds up completely because you can "cure" a mutant which suggests that mutants are viral based if you think about it.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

This is not hill I care to fight on other than to point out which presentation they are on at the time. Right now it looks like the species push under Hickman. Once again Mutants stuff is wonky, The fiction should be more clear but the longer Hickman is on the book the more likely that will happen. Humans with a different genes not even that holds up completely because you can "cure" a mutant which suggests that mutants are viral based if you think about it.

I still don't agree with it, therefore I don't agree with Hickman's interpretation and, therefore, don't agree with the reasoning. As for the 'genetic cure', I don't see that as much different than how some scientists talk of 'curing' a genetic disability in an unborn fetus--Downs Syndrome for example, or even most strains of muscular dystrophy definitely not viral and a whole separate discussion on its own.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it there; we won't get any further on this subject.