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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    In addition to what's already been said about this development, I'm annoyed that the current canon has Aunt May STILL in the dark about Peter as Spider-Man.

    What story mileage are we getting out of that?? My only guess is it's leading to an "I always knew" as in the PS4 game, which only works if May actually dies, which won't happen.
    I’d rather Peter tell her himself without being forced cause her finding out on her own always felt cheap.

  2. #32
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    Yeah, there's no getting away from the fact that this was just a bad issue for the reasons stated already in the thread. The fact that Peter's appearance during the poignant last few pages don't excuse him running away from Aunt May's diagnosis and then acting ridiculously irresponsible for the bulk of the issue. Just bad writing and a waste of what I thought was a decent setup with Aunt May from FNSM #1. Based on the book's momentum (or lack thereof) and anemic sales, I am not sure how much longer this title is for this world.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post

    Aside from just not feeling another trip to Death's Door for May, there was a moment here that stuck in my craw so badly, I just can't continue reading the book.

    After May tells Peter about her condition, she asks him to be with her the next day for her chemo treatment and Peter responds with "...I've got a lot going on." or words to that effect.

    Yes, eventually he does the right thing and shows up for her but that he would be such a sh*t and not immediately agree to be there struck me as so un-Peter like that I knew that this would be my last issue.
    I thought the issue addressed that. Peterís instinct was to run away from May because he couldnít stand to see her in pain, so thatís what he did. The line about having a lot going on was totally cringe-worthy, but it was supposed to be. Pete was in shock and behaved out of character (which kept going throughout the issue). At the end he realized that he put his stuff aside and be strong for May, just like she was trying to be for him. Yea he didnít get there immediately but thatís a very Spidey kind of story. The issue was about him realizing that Mayís illness was about her, not him.
    Cheers - CL

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    I thought the issue addressed that. Peter’s instinct was to run away from May because he couldn’t stand to see her in pain, so that’s what he did. The line about having a lot going on was totally cringe-worthy, but it was supposed to be. Pete was in shock and behaved out of character (which kept going throughout the issue). At the end he realized that he put his stuff aside and be strong for May, just like she was trying to be for him. Yea he didn’t get there immediately but that’s a very Spidey kind of story. The issue was about him realizing that May’s illness was about her, not him.
    I understand what you’re saying, but people still haven’t forgiven Peter about OMD.

    It’s similar to Anna’s behavior towards Otto in the new Superior Spider-Man. A lot of people found her a bit too condescending towards Otto. Otto has previously made mistakes before, so her condescension is more a manifestation of how little she trusts him. People who like her condescension do so because Otto has it coming.

    People hold Peter to such a high standard because they’ve lost faith in him to do the right thing.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    I thought the issue addressed that. Peterís instinct was to run away from May because he couldnít stand to see her in pain, so thatís what he did. The line about having a lot going on was totally cringe-worthy, but it was supposed to be. Pete was in shock and behaved out of character (which kept going throughout the issue). At the end he realized that he put his stuff aside and be strong for May, just like she was trying to be for him. Yea he didnít get there immediately but thatís a very Spidey kind of story. The issue was about him realizing that Mayís illness was about her, not him.
    I'm sure that was the thought behind the issue but the execution was so badly bungled as to make the intentions irrelevant.

    "Cringe-worthy" doesn't even cover it. Imagine that your twice-widowed, elderly mother (as May is really Peter's mother figure, of course) tells you that she's been diagnosed with cancer that she wants you to be with her when she undergoes her first chemo treatment. Then imagine that your response to that is "I...have a lot going on right now." No, that's just not something any decent human being would do.

    Peter makes a lot of mistakes. It's essential to his character. But making mistakes and being a total douche are two different things.

    Like I said earlier, if they put some other obstacle in Peter's way that would have made it difficult to be there for May, I could buy it.

    If there was some commitment he made as Spider-Man and he knew someone would be imperiled if he wasn't there when he said he would be - again, that's ok.

    But if it's just "this is too difficult for me", then no.

    There was probably a number of ways to write this issue in a way where it would have worked emotionally and been true to Peter's character. This did not take any of those better routes.

    If I had been enjoying this title more previously, I might let this issue slide and hope it rebounds but it's been on the bubble for me from the start. Pretty easy to see this as a jumping off point.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I understand what you’re saying, but people still haven’t forgiven Peter about OMD.

    It’s similar to Anna’s behavior towards Otto in the new Superior Spider-Man. A lot of people found her a bit too condescending towards Otto. Otto has previously made mistakes before, so her condescension is more a manifestation of how little she trusts him. People who like her condescension do so because Otto has it coming.

    People hold Peter to such a high standard because they’ve lost faith in him to do the right thing.
    No, it's not that at all. This is all pretty simple and has nothing to do with any feelings about OMD.

    People still understand that making mistakes and failing is still essential to Peter's character. He doesn't have to be - and should never be - flawless.

    But when May tells him how dire her situation is and she asks for him to be there for her, for him not to immediately step up is a mistake. It's a bad look for anyone, much less Peter.

    Especially when we've seen, throughout the whole history of his fictional existence, how intensely he reacts to May being in peril of any kind. It's established that he will do anything to protect her.

    So having him give just a bullsh*t, cowardly response in this situation is grossly out of character. It's just a false note to strike. It's not about holding Peter to a "higher standard," per se, it's just reading something and knowing that, no, that's not true to how he would act.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I'm sure that was the thought behind the issue but the execution was so badly bungled as to make the intentions irrelevant.

    "Cringe-worthy" doesn't even cover it. Imagine that your twice-widowed, elderly mother (as May is really Peter's mother figure, of course) tells you that she's been diagnosed with cancer that she wants you to be with her when she undergoes her first chemo treatment. Then imagine that your response to that is "I...have a lot going on right now." No, that's just not something any decent human being would do.

    Peter makes a lot of mistakes. It's essential to his character. But making mistakes and being a total douche are two different things.

    Like I said earlier, if they put some other obstacle in Peter's way that would have made it difficult to be there for May, I could buy it.

    If there was some commitment he made as Spider-Man and he knew someone would be imperiled if he wasn't there when he said he would be - again, that's ok.

    But if it's just "this is too difficult for me", then no.

    There was probably a number of ways to write this issue in a way where it would have worked emotionally and been true to Peter's character. This did not take any of those better routes.

    If I had been enjoying this title more previously, I might let this issue slide and hope it rebounds but it's been on the bubble for me from the start. Pretty easy to see this as a jumping off point.
    I thought she was widowed 3 times.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    No, it's not that at all. This is all pretty simple and has nothing to do with any feelings about OMD.

    People still understand that making mistakes and failing is still essential to Peter's character. He doesn't have to be - and should never be - flawless.

    But when May tells him how dire her situation is and she asks for him to be there for her, for him not to immediately step up is a mistake. It's a bad look for anyone, much less Peter.

    Especially when we've seen, throughout the whole history of his fictional existence, how intensely he reacts to May being in peril of any kind. It's established that he will do anything to protect her.

    So having him give just a bullsh*t, cowardly response in this situation is grossly out of character. It's just a false note to strike. It's not about holding Peter to a "higher standard," per se, it's just reading something and knowing that, no, that's not true to how he would act.
    This is just the latest example of making Peter look bad ( I had to stop reading Slott because I was so fed up with it). No one expects Peter to be Steve Rogers ( let aloneJesus or Abraham), but constantly making him look pathetic and weak like a bratty teenager who would rather be on his Play Station then face responsibility is tiresome to say the.least. There is a teenage Spider-Man ( his name is Miles Morales). Let Pete be sn sdult.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I thought she was widowed 3 times.
    I think it's just twice. She was engaged to Nathan Lubensky but not married.

    Either way, she's suffered a bit of heartbreak in her life!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Oh, for crying out loud. One dud issue and one (so far) questionable storyline (there's every possibility that this will end up being worthwhile - I'm just not willing to stick with it) in no way outweighs the vast amount of often excellent material that's been generated in the more than decade plus worth of stories post-OMD.
    Fair enough that you can't judge the story before reading it. As far as OMD generating worthwhile material, let's just say I've tried reading some of that stuff and no way in heck was it worth it (esp. seeing as one can read Ultimate Spider-Man instead).


    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I don't think there's any waffling over OMD here, per se. It's just revisiting an old trope of the book - May's precarious health - that really should be retired.
    Whatever. But, yeah, Peter's aunt's health was overused when the series was new.

    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    That’s ironic, since Daredevil is the only consistently great book Marvel has produced the last 2 decades.
    Fraction and Thompson's two Hawkeye series, anyone? Taylor on All-New Wolverine?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Fair enough that you can't judge the story before reading it. As far as OMD generating worthwhile material, let's just say I've tried reading some of that stuff and no way in heck was it worth it (esp. seeing as one can read Ultimate Spider-Man instead).
    I'll take ASM over Ultimate Spider-Man any day. USM was fine for what it was. I read it as it came out but never went back to it. On the other hand, I frequently revisit all eras of ASM and the satellite titles.

  12. #42
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    Honestly, I didn't find the issue to be that bad, just kind of underwhelming. I felt like the Aunt May stuff and the kid should've been two separate issues. Like having one slow quiet issue to have Peter and May reflect on this issue, and then the next issue we can see Peter starting to crack under the pressure and deal with the kid. Just felt like too much heavy information to deal with and not enough time to properly express it.

    I do feel like Taylor and Spencer, who has since incorporated it into his book, wouldn't introduce a plot line as big or important as this and not have it pay off in a satisfying manner. It's like the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times...I'll get the stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Fraction and Thompson's two Hawkeye series, anyone? Taylor on All-New Wolverine?
    I think he's referring to a series that has been consistently great from writer to writer over the past 20 years. You go from Smith & the Marvel Knights, to Bendis, to Brubaker, to Waid, to Soule, to Zdarksy, that's such an excellent line up of runs.

    Like you said, those series you mentioned are excellent, there is just something impressive of the consistent quality Daredevil has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I'll take ASM over Ultimate Spider-Man any day. USM was fine for what it was. I read it as it came out but never went back to it. On the other hand, I frequently revisit all eras of ASM and the satellite titles.
    I'm a pretty big defender of modern ASM, though while I for the most part just re-read specific storylines or issues I really like, I've gone back and read through the entirety of USM multiple times, now that's also another series I think had an incredibly consistent quality for a long period of time.
    Last edited by Inversed; 04-11-2019 at 09:00 AM.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Like you said, those series you mentioned are excellent, there is just something impressive of the consistent quality Daredevil has.
    I've always been a DC fanboy for the most part, but have collected many Marvel titles over the years and started my Marvel collecting in the early 90's with the Spiderman titles. Over the years I've found Marvel comics to be way too convoluted, with too many events/crossovers/reboots etc. The Ultimate Universe started out great but Marvel managed to **** that up.
    With that said.... DAREDEVIL is the one constant positive in the Marvel lineup! I love the character and love the wonderful runs he's had over the years!! Then adding the awesome Netflix show to the mix was just icing on the cake!! I LOVE THIS CHARACTER! I also like that even though he's a part of the Marvel universe he pretty much stays to his corner of the world and doesn't have major crossovers that you have to read in order to know what the hell is going on. And thanks to the Netflix shows I've expanded my collection by adding books that Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones appear in. As far as I'm concerned, those titles can do just like the shows did....acknowledge the rest of the Marvel Universe exists, but leave our Defenders heroes out of it (for the most part).

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I'm a pretty big defender of modern ASM, though while I for the most part just re-read specific storylines or issues I really like, I've gone back and read through the entirety of USM multiple times, now that's also another series I think had an incredibly consistent quality for a long period of time.
    Well, it did have the same creative team throughout the duration of its run.

    Which is a plus for it on one hand but a detriment on the other. USM is all Bendis/Bagley. A good team but...there's no variety. Whereas with ASM, the list of excellent creators goes on and on. There's a uniformity to USM that feels a bit stultifying to me. ASM has a whole kaleidoscope of talent, all of whom have added something unique and interesting to the ASM tapestry. And ASM is on-going. It's still a living thing. USM is long done and over with. And I wasn't crazy about how it all (on Peter's end) ended up.

    And, honestly, I can't think of any particular USM storylines that I would point to as being classic or even particularly great. It's all just kind of...there.

    I think USM's biggest legacy is that it served as a blueprint for how to update Spider-Man into other media for the modern age and keep the essential parts of the mythos without having it seem like a retro thing.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    I've always been a DC fanboy for the most part, but have collected many Marvel titles over the years and started my Marvel collecting in the early 90's with the Spiderman titles. Over the years I've found Marvel comics to be way too convoluted, with too many events/crossovers/reboots etc.
    Not to get this sidetracked but when people say Marvel is more convoluted than DC...that just doesn't track.

    I don't think there's anyone working at DC who knows what their continuity is anymore. Certainly no one reading it can tell you how things line up.

    You've got pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, Flashpoint, New 52 and Rebirth.

    No one knows how all of it ties together. Even if you limit it to just Flashpoint/New 52 and Rebirth, you've got a hot mess on your hands. And Doomsday Clock, which was supposed to straighten things out, has been dragging on since November of 2017 I believe.

    With Marvel, it's just "everything counts." Pretty simple.

    Some things get quietly ignored and some things you need to squint a bit to make sense of but the timeline that began with the FF #1 is still in place.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickWJ324 View Post
    The Ultimate Universe started out great but Marvel managed to **** that up.
    The Ultimate universe came to a sad end but it had outlived its usefulness. The whole point of a new universe without the baggage of continuity becomes impossible to maintain once that universe has accumulated its own baggage.

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