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  1. #46
    Spectacular Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Not to get this sidetracked but when people say Marvel is more convoluted than DC...that just doesn't track.

    I don't think there's anyone working at DC who knows what their continuity is anymore. Certainly no one reading it can tell you how things line up.

    You've got pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, Flashpoint, New 52 and Rebirth.

    No one knows how all of it ties together. Even if you limit it to just Flashpoint/New 52 and Rebirth, you've got a hot mess on your hands. And Doomsday Clock, which was supposed to straighten things out, has been dragging on since November of 2017 I believe.

    With Marvel, it's just "everything counts." Pretty simple.

    Some things get quietly ignored and some things you need to squint a bit to make sense of but the timeline that began with the FF #1 is still in place.



    The Ultimate universe came to a sad end but it had outlived its usefulness. The whole point of a new universe without the baggage of continuity becomes impossible to maintain once that universe has accumulated its own baggage.
    I'll have to kindly disagree on both counts. I find DC much more manageable than Marvel and I'd take the Ultimate Universe over the main Marvel Universe any day of the week.
    Now back to our Friendly Neighborhood Spidey discussions.....

  2. #47
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Yah, paged through this one and I'm done.

    Aunt May is apparently completely immune to magical healing and all other forms of being able to make someone better. Its a really amazing hill that Marvel seems intent to die on.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 04-11-2019 at 10:18 AM.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Wow...um...I actually really enjoyed this issue but I seem to be in the minority here.
    I get the frustration; my stance in all of this is you either are going to directly address the elephant in the room or you're not. If it's going to be the latter, then writers are just wasting everyone's time in just **** teasing them.

    This has been going on for the better part of 4 years now, the occasional sly reference or nod. At a certain point, there absolutely need to be payoff for all the references and callbacks or what was the point?
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Well, it did have the same creative team throughout the duration of its run.

    Which is a plus for it on one hand but a detriment on the other. USM is all Bendis/Bagley. A good team but...there's no variety. Whereas with ASM, the list of excellent creators goes on and on. There's a uniformity to USM that feels a bit stultifying to me. ASM has a whole kaleidoscope of talent, all of whom have added something unique and interesting to the ASM tapestry. And ASM is on-going. It's still a living thing. USM is long done and over with. And I wasn't crazy about how it all (on Peter's end) ended up.

    And, honestly, I can't think of any particular USM storylines that I would point to as being classic or even particularly great. It's all just kind of...there.

    I think USM's biggest legacy is that it served as a blueprint for how to update Spider-Man into other media for the modern age and keep the essential parts of the mythos without having it seem like a retro thing.
    To be fair, I was referring to modern ASM, rather than ASM in its entirety, so it'd just be comparing the two creators writing for it at the same time as Ultimate, JMS and Slott (plus the BND braintrust)
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I mean, I get that. I do. But it's one issue. One. We haven't seen the rest of the story, and some on here are already dropping the title, ready to write off comics forever (?!). It's a little early for the outrage, don't you think?
    Never be troubled by what others think. If you like something enjoy it with pride don't worry about changing the minds of others. This is my heartfelt advice to you.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  6. #51
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Never be troubled by what others think. If you like something enjoy it with pride don't worry about changing the minds of others. This is my heartfelt advice to you.
    Thanks but it's a little hard to do when the other viewpoint is so overwhelming.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  7. #52
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Well, it did have the same creative team throughout the duration of its run.

    Which is a plus for it on one hand but a detriment on the other. USM is all Bendis/Bagley. A good team but...there's no variety. Whereas with ASM, the list of excellent creators goes on and on. There's a uniformity to USM that feels a bit stultifying to me. ASM has a whole kaleidoscope of talent, all of whom have added something unique and interesting to the ASM tapestry. And ASM is on-going. It's still a living thing. USM is long done and over with. And I wasn't crazy about how it all (on Peter's end) ended up.

    And, honestly, I can't think of any particular USM storylines that I would point to as being classic or even particularly great. It's all just kind of...there.

    I think USM's biggest legacy is that it served as a blueprint for how to update Spider-Man into other media for the modern age and keep the essential parts of the mythos without having it seem like a retro thing.
    Not to drift the thread, but "Learning Curve" is easily the best USM story and a modern classic.

    Carry on.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Thanks but it's a little hard to do when the other viewpoint is so overwhelming.
    It can indeed be hard at times to hold an opposing viewpoint to an overwhelmingly popular point of view. As a fan of PeterxGwen (especially a Spider-Gwen variant) and PeterxFelicia, I feel your pain. Hang in their friend.

    Edit - My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was in junior high school so this storyline hits very close to home for me. I freely admit I cannot be objective as I am deeply upset about what I fear will be a trivialization of a serious condition that devastates millions of lives annually.
    Last edited by Celgress; 04-11-2019 at 07:35 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Well, it did have the same creative team throughout the duration of its run.

    Which is a plus for it on one hand but a detriment on the other. USM is all Bendis/Bagley. A good team but...there's no variety. Whereas with ASM, the list of excellent creators goes on and on. There's a uniformity to USM that feels a bit stultifying to me. ASM has a whole kaleidoscope of talent, all of whom have added something unique and interesting to the ASM tapestry. And ASM is on-going. It's still a living thing. USM is long done and over with. And I wasn't crazy about how it all (on Peter's end) ended up.

    And, honestly, I can't think of any particular USM storylines that I would point to as being classic or even particularly great. It's all just kind of...there.

    I think USM's biggest legacy is that it served as a blueprint for how to update Spider-Man into other media for the modern age and keep the essential parts of the mythos without having it seem like a retro thing.
    To each their own... I don't think your opinion is wrong but I do think Bendis' Ultimate is easily among the best runs and I think it's the definitive portrayal of High School Pete (for me).

    The consistency would be something I'd put in the plus column (for me), as would the completeness of it. It's a Spider-Man story that has a beginning and an end -- that alone is extraordinarily rare for Spidey, or any superhero -- I mean, aside from the Chris Nolan Batman trilogy, what creators even get that opportunity to tell the "full" story?

    There are so many great creative choices -- and to be fair, a lot of it benefits from being a "second draft" of concepts or characters from the 616, but still -- having Norman Osborn and OsCorp be central antagonists from the beginning; Gwen Stacy living with Aunt May; Peter dating Kitty Pryde; and Mary Jane being Peter's best friend; the integration of Venom is great; I like Peter having a temper; I like the explanation for how he creates the web fluid... on and on.

    Again, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, just that I think that Bendis has become so ubiquitous that his name seems to elicit groans from fans and he seems to be almost underrated, in a weird way.

  10. #55
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    It can indeed be hard at times to hold an opposing viewpoint to an overwhelmingly popular point of view. As a fan of PeterxGwen (especially a Spider-Gwen variant) and PeterxFelicia, I feel your pain. Hang in their friend.

    Edit - My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was in junior high school so this storyline hits very close to home for me. I freely admit I cannot be objective as I am deeply upset about what I fear will be a trivialization of a serious condition that devastates millions of lives annually.
    I'm sorry to hear that, man. My grandmother once had some form of cancer. It went into remission, but she had a whole myriad of illnesses that eventually did her in. It wasn't easy, and my father...seeing his face, and tears, it made me wish there was a way to save her. So, yeah, I agree that I don't want this story to trivialize real emotional pain. Will it? I can't say. But I'm still going to keep reading it.

    Tom Taylor, in the letters pages of this issue, describes his own pains with his family and cancer, and it touched my heart. So knowing his own history, I trust that he knows what type of story he's telling.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that, man. My grandmother once had some form of cancer. It went into remission, but she had a whole myriad of illnesses that eventually did her in. It wasn't easy, and my father...seeing his face, and tears, it made me wish there was a way to save her. So, yeah, I agree that I don't want this story to trivialize real emotional pain. Will it? I can't say. But I'm still going to keep reading it.

    Tom Taylor, in the letters pages of this issue, describes his own pains with his family and cancer, and it touched my heart. So knowing his own history, I trust that he knows what type of story he's telling.
    Thank you for your sympathy. We'll see is all I can say at this time. I hope for the best but am expecting the worst.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  12. #57
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    My issues with this story, and title thus far, have much less to do with Aunt May's diagnosis and more with the pacing (painfully slow; there has been perhaps 3 issues of story told in the series' 5 issues thus far), the underwhelming Under Yorkers storyline and what I have found to be a fairly dull and listless palette thus far for what was promised to be a "street level and back to basics title". It was the same for the relaunched PP:SSM title; it was hyped as an alternative to the big wide screen action movie feel that was Slott's ASM at the time but ended up being consumed by a long time travel storyline and not much else (apart from the great Jonah reveal issue). This title seems destined for the same path----and sadly I expect the same fate for it based on it's anemic sales figures. I am puzzled as to why Marvel cannot simply produce a true "street level" Spidey title that just focuses on his more grounded foes and provides a bit more spotlight on Peter, much the same as the 1980's run of PP:SSM did. It seems that most everyone agrees that was a great title and provided the perfect counterbalance to ASM.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    My issues with this story, and title thus far, have much less to do with Aunt May's diagnosis and more with the pacing (painfully slow; there has been perhaps 3 issues of story told in the series' 5 issues thus far), the underwhelming Under Yorkers storyline and what I have found to be a fairly dull and listless palette thus far for what was promised to be a "street level and back to basics title". It was the same for the relaunched PP:SSM title; it was hyped as an alternative to the big wide screen action movie feel that was Slott's ASM at the time but ended up being consumed by a long time travel storyline and not much else (apart from the great Jonah reveal issue). This title seems destined for the same path----and sadly I expect the same fate for it based on it's anemic sales figures. I am puzzled as to why Marvel cannot simply produce a true "street level" Spidey title that just focuses on his more grounded foes and provides a bit more spotlight on Peter, much the same as the 1980's run of PP:SSM did. It seems that most everyone agrees that was a great title and provided the perfect counterbalance to ASM.
    Marvel as a whole has been shifting away from the more grounded storylines in favor for bigger ones to the point that this is a street-level story.
    Last edited by PCN24454; 04-12-2019 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Typo

  14. #59
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Marvel as a whole has been shifting away from the more grounded storylines in favor for bigger ones to the point that th is a street-level story.
    I'm not sure that's entirely true. I tend to agree with you on the whole (and certainly with Spidey titles the last few years) but Daredevil and Immortal Hulk (2 of my current favorite titles) have a more grounded approach even by the standards of their title characters. The 1980's run of Spidey titles still gets a lot of love on these boards and most polls you see online (even by readers too young to have read them as they were published) and it's little wonder: Marvel as a whole focused on "putting the character back in characters " back then. Avengers, X-Men, Spidey all focused on (relatively) smaller, character-driven story arcs and it paid off handsomely.

    Times change and there is no going back but I do wonder if a similar approach for a Spidey satellite title might not produce better sales results/reviews than what they have been getting with FNSM and last year's PP:SSM.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Not to drift the thread, but "Learning Curve" is easily the best USM story and a modern classic.
    It's...ok. And that was, what, the second arc? I always felt that USM peaked early.

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