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  1. #76
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    May cuts a Roman Reigns promo: "I'm in remission y'all"

    Then she beats up a scotsman
    Spoilers for the Kraven fight at the end of Hunted

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    It is in fact possible to survive cancer.
    Definitely, thankfully, and I think that's why you can have a survivor's story like Jane Foster's that - for many readers - is inspiring.

    I think the problem with doing a similar storyline with May is that this is a character who has famously been on Death's Door time and again.

    If this is just going to be another instance of her ailing for months only to have a miracle cure arrive, I think it just feels cheap and exploitative to some people. Like "why are you even taking us down this road?"

    Maybe the endgame is going to be worth it but I think there's a lot of skepticism that's hard to overcome.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    It is in fact possible to survive cancer.
    Nice strawman. Do you actually grasp my problem with this storyline? If not let me help enlighten you:
    Doing yet another “Oh no May is on the brink of dying” only to end with “Lol just kidding” is wasting everyone’s time. I feel nothing so far because I frankly don’t believe Marvel has the courage to kill her off. When May dies in the PS4 game, that hit me because this really was goodbye. Marvel has done so many bait and switch stories with May that until she actually dies and spends a couple years dead, I simply don’t buy into this.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    until she actually dies and spends a couple years dead, I simply don’t buy into this.
    And the thing is...she did die and spent a couple of years dead when it happened back in ASM#400

  5. #80
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Nice strawman. Do you actually grasp my problem with this storyline? If not let me help enlighten you:
    Doing yet another “Oh no May is on the brink of dying” only to end with “Lol just kidding” is wasting everyone’s time. I feel nothing so far because I frankly don’t believe Marvel has the courage to kill her off. When May dies in the PS4 game, that hit me because this really was goodbye. Marvel has done so many bait and switch stories with May that until she actually dies and spends a couple years dead, I simply don’t buy into this.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Nice strawman. Do you actually grasp my problem with this storyline? If not let me help enlighten you:
    Doing yet another “Oh no May is on the brink of dying” only to end with “Lol just kidding” is wasting everyone’s time. I feel nothing so far because I frankly don’t believe Marvel has the courage to kill her off. When May dies in the PS4 game, that hit me because this really was goodbye. Marvel has done so many bait and switch stories with May that until she actually dies and spends a couple years dead, I simply don’t buy into this.
    Ehh, the PS4 version of May didn’t really mean much to me so her living and dying didn’t mean much to me either.

    It honestly wasn’t courage that killed her off but contrivance.

  7. #82
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    A20C7C21-0792-4ED5-9D76-4020619048AB.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Ehh, the PS4 version of May didn’t really mean much to me so her living and dying didn’t mean much to me either.

    It honestly wasn’t courage that killed her off but contrivance.
    Suit yourself but given that Marvel freaked out when insominac told them they wanted to kill May off I do think it took courage to not just do what Marvel does where they string you along with a 101 rehash of will May die or not. They had a vision and they pulled it off imo.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    A20C7C21-0792-4ED5-9D76-4020619048AB.jpg

    Suit yourself but given that Marvel freaked out when insominac told them they wanted to kill May off I do think it took courage to not just do what Marvel does where they string you along with a 101 rehash of will May die or not. They had a vision and they pulled it off imo.
    I will say this: there's a huge difference between killing off a character in a game that 1) is a finite narrative and 2) is an alt reality for these characters as opposed to killing them off in the core reality where they play a key part in an ongoing narrative.

    The game is what it is. It's self-contained. But if you make the decision to kill off a major player in the comics, that causes ramifications that stretch out for years. You can't be cavalier about that decision.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I will say this: there's a huge difference between killing off a character in a game that 1) is a finite narrative and 2) is an alt reality for these characters as opposed to killing them off in the core reality where they play a key part in an ongoing narrative.

    The game is what it is. It's self-contained. But if you make the decision to kill off a major player in the comics, that causes ramifications that stretch out for years. You can't be cavalier about that decision.
    Considering how popular characters can just be resurrected, you can absolutely be cavalier about the decision.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Considering how popular characters can just be resurrected, you can absolutely be cavalier about the decision.
    That's actually why you can't be. That's something you can't abuse. Especially with a character like May who's already been rescued from death or the brink of death a few times.

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    As I said, it provided an easy blueprint in translating the Spider-Man story to modern day. That's its main legacy.

    I think it's also why the book itself also peaked early. Updating the origin was the main service it provided.
    Wow. You know, I'm really starting to think that USM, despite being the most successful installment of the Ultimate line and one of the most successful AU series period, is really grossly underrated. About all you hear about it these days is how it created Miles Morales or, like here, that it updated Spidey and paved the way for that. It's own merits are really getting left in the dust. I mean, it was more then just an update to an old series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Not so much a nightmare that new readers aren't discovering ASM all the time. It is Marvel's top selling book, after all.

    You're imposing your own confusion onto the broader audience. New readers are able to find their own ways into the book, clearly. It's not that difficult.
    You kidding me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    It was a great first-time entry point for you. Is it objectively "the best" for all first time Spidey readers? No.

    New readers come to Spider-Man from a multitude of different angles. When you have a character that's been in publication this long, who has been in so many different titles, there's no one entry point that is the single most appealing one to all readers.
    I will concede that people can get there through multiple gateways. Heck, some of the stuff I like I got to through some pretty odd pathways (I laugh when people argue that movies don't make new comics readers, since almost everything I read can be traced back to me seeing movies somewhere down the line). Maybe what I should say is that I think USM is a better starter comic for new readers either interested in comics in general or Spidey's comic adventures for much the same reasons as I explained before (more streamlined in terms of volume of publication and story content, more in line with the adaptations, consistent level of quality, etc.). Conversely, I'm not sure of many good arguments for starting with baseline ASM, given its more complex nature, huge backlog, varying levels of quality, etc. I mean, just because it's ongoing doesn't mean it's going to automatically be the best first time experience.

    That's not to say that USM is alone in it's advantages. I would argue that Marvel Adventures and the short-lived Spidey series also work really as first-timers for similar reasons. I don't know, there may well be some good reasons I'm overlooking for why starting with baseline ASM is a good idea, but I just don't see it. If you have any thoughts on that, I'd love to hear them.
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  12. #87
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I shall find 10 people. I shall lock them up. I shall force five to read all of Brian's run. I shall force five to read all of Slott's run. I shall discover which is a better entry point for Spider-Man. I shall find the answer. I shall complete this mission.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    That's not to say that USM is alone in it's advantages. I would argue that Marvel Adventures and the short-lived Spidey series also work really as first-timers for similar reasons. I don't know, there may well be some good reasons I'm overlooking for why starting with baseline ASM is a good idea, but I just don't see it. If you have any thoughts on that, I'd love to hear them.
    My point was that there are a multitude of ways to get into Spidey and there's no one size fits all book to do that.

    It could be USM. It could be ASM. It could be any one of the many satellite titles. It could be Marvel Adventures. It could be Untold Tales of Spider-Man. Every fan comes to reading Spidey from their own direction.

    But claiming that ASM is bad because it's too confusing is a bit ridiculous. I'm sure none of the posters here who did start with ASM did so with Amazing Fantasy #15.

    No, they instead started at some random issue well into ASM's run - maybe many decades in - and yet somehow they managed to make sense of it and weren't daunted by the history involved.

    That's not how everyone starts but clearly it did happen that way for many fans and still continues to happen.

    What might seem confusing and off-putting to you is instead a rich, complex mythology to others, one they enjoy jumping in to and finding their way.

    Everybody is different.
    Last edited by Prof. Warren; 04-13-2019 at 05:37 PM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    I shall find 10 people. I shall lock them up. I shall force five to read all of Brian's run. I shall force five to read all of Slott's run. I shall discover which is a better entry point for Spider-Man. I shall find the answer. I shall complete this mission.
    You're doing the Lord's work, Snoop. Godspeed!

  15. #90

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    To get back on topic, I liked the issue for what it was. I am a Tom Taylor fan so maybe' I'm weird, but I did like FNSM. I did find the story a little bizarre and Peter acting weird but I see it as symptomatic of the larger problem of trying to get readers feel anything about Aunt May. It's not because she's a bad character, when written well (as she was until #400 and in JMS' run) she's excellent but the dead horse about her health and her importance to Peter has been beaten and pounded to the earth so often that not only is the well dry, the earth is entirely salted and nothing can be grown from there.

    I mean I remember in the PS4 game, when Aunt May died at the end, the reaction across the fandom was optimism, relief, and happiness. In the sense, that "yes, finally". Not because they dislike the character or that version (The PS4 of Aunt May is the second favorite May after Rosemary Harris, and for some more beloved) and presents us a direct adaptation of ASM#400, so people got closure and didn't feel cheated.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Wow. You know, I'm really starting to think that USM, despite being the most successful installment of the Ultimate line and one of the most successful AU series period, is really grossly underrated.
    Not "one of the most successful"...the most successful. I don't think some people read the series all the way through to make any kind of dismissal, that's certainly the sense I am getting from some of the posts you have here. But USM is widely respected across the board. That is the single most influential run of Spider-Man in the 21st Century. Its influence touches everything from Raimi's Trilogy, the Amazing movies, Homecoming, to the MTV Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, and other cartoons, and more recently the PS4 game. I will say that Ultimate Spider-Man's value isn't that it serves as an entry-point, or a modern retelling, though that is part. IT's simply very well done, and written well, and Bendis created versions of the classic characters who have much in common with the originals but are also slightly different with a distinct personality. He didn't do anything 1:1. Remember that before USM you had Untold Tales of Spider-Man and the year before you had Spider-Man Chapter One, so the idea of doing new tales of Peter in high school or in teenage years wasn't by itself the thing that made it work, since the previous two weren't major sellers, since Untold Tales was a cult and critical success and Chapter One was this great sadness.

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