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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what your issue is here. You are upset that some creators and readers prefer Hal over other GLs? Would you rather diversity is the primary reason for the choice of GL, despite sales showing that more readers will buy a comic with Hal?
    I am upset when creators feign support of a character and undercut them at pivotal moments.

    If sales were the only thing that mattered then you should give Bruce Wayne a GL ring and make the comic about him and make Hal his sidekick. One step removed from that, I suppose.

    If that is always going to be your excuse then it is a self fulfilling prophecy. Screwing the new to support the old and then saying "Look, the new is failing and the old is better by marginal sales comparison!"

    By the freaking by, I'd love any proof at all that Hal Jordan being in a JL event improved sales relative to any other GL. Seems impossible as heck to prove.
    Last edited by Dred; 04-15-2019 at 07:37 PM.

  2. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    I am upset when creators feign support of a character and undercut them at pivotal moments.

    If sales were the only thing that mattered then you should give Bruce Wayne a GL ring and make the comic about him and make Hal his sidekick. One step removed from that, I suppose.

    If that is always going to be your excuse then it is a self fulfilling prophecy. Screwing the new to support the old and then saying "Look, the new is failing and the old is better by marginal sales comparison!"

    By the freaking by, I'd love any proof at all that Hal Jordan being in a JL event improved sales relative to any other GL. Seems impossible as heck to prove.
    The over-reliance upon Hal on covers in stories he's barely a part of would be a pretty good indication that the sales department at DC thinks Hal helps goose sales. However, if you don't want to believe them, that's fine.

    Sorry you feel the new is being pushed out by the old, but I have the same conversations with people complaining Jessica is pushing out the old

    All depends on your perspective, I guess...

  3. #138
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    And once again we circle back to the 1960s being the only thing that matters. Glad we finally got to where I was starting from.

  4. #139
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I’m going to take a stab at clarifying Dred’s point without trying to put words in his mouth ( feel free to correct me if I’m misunderstanding you Dred).

    It’s what I like to call, the “Batman Cycle”. Most people like Batman the best so DC panders to them by releasing a ton of material showing off Batman as the main hero, the most special, the one with all the cool one liners, and everyone looks up to him. This in turn raises a new gen to only care about Batman because why would I care about any other heroes when Batman is clearly cooler than them?

    Hal obviously doesn’t have anywhere near the push Batman does (except when Johns is writing him) but he is frequently marketed as the “main” Lantern in the way the others clearly aren’t. He’s the “Greatest”, and why would you settle for second best when you can read about #1? For the record though I think DC has been giving Jessica Cruz a push. She’s showed up in a LOT of outside material like DCSHG, the recent JLvsFF, etc. John is the main GL in JL right now, but I do sympathize with his fans feel given that DC totally squandered John’s popularity after the cartoon. But on the other hand the DCAU is long over and it’s time of popularity is passed. It’s moreso an icon of nostalgia than the definitive DCU these days. Kyle and Guy have always been screwed over so nothing has changed in that regard.

  5. #140
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    You can't talk about someone else being an icon of nostalgia in a conversation about Hal Jordan, though. Nothing is ever going to compare to the absurdity of HEAT.
    Last edited by Dred; 04-15-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  6. #141
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    You can't talk about someone else being an icon of nostalgia in a conversation about Hal Jordan, though. Nothing is ever going to compare to the absurdity of HEAT.
    Despite my sympathies with fans of Hal's for how he was mangled during that era, HEAT was really obnoxious.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Despite my sympathies with fans of Hal's for how he was mangled during that era, HEAT was really obnoxious.
    Obnoxious is underselling. Hell, calling them toxic is underselling it. They were downright despicable. They won out in the end, though.

  8. #143
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    HEAT was an abomination but Hal's return had nothing to do with them, he came back because DC noticed that anytime he showed up as GL, sales went up. Didio obviously wanted him back too, so unless he was some secret HEAT member, then Hal's comeback was completely unrelated to the obnoxious antics of some extreme minority.

    Also, the "nostalgia" argument can be used about literally any character that's been around for a long time. When I started reading DC the main GL was still Kyle and for all intents and purposes I see him as my "nostalgic" Green Lantern today. So the current management seems to like Hal, so what, the previous management didn't like him and they couldn't make it anymore clear if they tried. Perhaps the next one won't like him either and then another GL would be seen as the "icon of nostalgia".

  9. #144
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    To Johnny:

    So Hal had a role in Metal? I might check that out then.

    I have Hal's one shot in Darkseid War but didn't follow the JL title. Was it good? Thanks.

  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silly View Post
    To Johnny:

    So Hal had a role in Metal? I might check that out then.

    I have Hal's one shot in Darkseid War but didn't follow the JL title. Was it good? Thanks.
    It was okay. Towards the end when Jason Fabok started doing the art, it really improved in my opinion. Before that, it was rather mediocre. Johns' New-52 work is really hit or miss, but I do think you should check it out.

  11. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    It was okay. Towards the end when Jason Fabok started doing the art, it really improved in my opinion. Before that, it was rather mediocre. Johns' New-52 work is really hit or miss, but I do think you should check it out.
    Johns New 52 stuff was very hit or miss, but his Shazam and Darkseid War were both great.

  12. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Obnoxious is underselling. Hell, calling them toxic is underselling it. They were downright despicable. They won out in the end, though.
    I think you are fixating to an unhealthy degree on a small segment of fandom that was never really representative of the larger audience, most of whom just want good GL stories, irregardless of who is wearing the ring.

    It’s like hating Luke Skywalker and his fans because of Last Jedi Truthers. You are directing your ire at the wrong thing. Overzealous fans of any character are horrible.

  13. #148
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    If that was the case then there'd be little need for chronic disenfranchisement. I understand that Hal is the most popular right now. I also understand why that is and the negative things it necessitates.

  14. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    If that was the case then there'd be little need for chronic disenfranchisement. I understand that Hal is the most popular right now. I also understand why that is and the negative things it necessitates.
    You'll have to explain what chronic disenfranchisement means. Sorry

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    If that was the case then there'd be little need for chronic disenfranchisement. I understand that Hal is the most popular right now. I also understand why that is and the negative things it necessitates.
    Why is this an issue here and not with the web slinger?

    Peter Parker being popular has NOT hurt Miles or Gwen or Miguel or Ben or Eddie or Jessica or Mary Jane or Peter Porker.

    Those guys are not fighting. We see cosplay of all of THEM unlike Green Lantern. We books with all of them NONE trying to degrade or bury the others.

    How many X-Men books/teams did we have at one point? NONE tried to ruin the other.

    How many Iron folks are running around? Hulks? Wolverines?

    What has Marvel gotten as an understanding that DC has NOT?


    So the current management seems to like Hal, so what, the previous management didn't like him and they couldn't make it anymore clear if they tried. Perhaps the next one won't like him either and then another GL would be seen as the "icon of nostalgia".
    Just a little FYI-Bob Harris who is currently the big dog in charge of DC editorial was in charge when Hal went NUTS and Kyle showed up.
    So if Bob Harris hated Hal-I DOUBT we would see him in any book.
    Under Bob-John, Kyle & Guy all had SOLO books under his first watch. Something they CAN'T get now. Same with Jessica & Simon. Only Hal can have a solo run.

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