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  1. #2836
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    This is such a mess.

    Acting defense secretary Shanahan is out.

    The move leaves the Pentagon without a permanent leader at a time of escalating tensions with Iran.

    I can't remember a time when America has looked weaker.

    Only the best people, from the best families:

    At the Pentagon, officials were discussing that a routine F.B.I. investigation for cabinet nominees was dragging on for Mr. Shanahan because of his divorce, which included an allegation from his ex-wife — denied by Mr. Shanahan — that he punched her in the stomach. Mr. Shanahan said that his ex-wife started the fight, and his spokesman said that she was arrested and charged with domestic violence, charges which were eventually dropped.

    According to court documents viewed by The New York Times, in 2011 Mr. Shanahan’s son, who was 16 at the time, hit his mother repeatedly with a baseball bat, and she was hospitalized.
    Last edited by PaulBullion; 06-18-2019 at 11:02 AM.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  2. #2837
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Shanahan had no military experience. He was a Boeing executive and had no business being the SoD. But true to this Graft Administration, the next guy up is MIC shill.

    Mark T. Esper, the secretary of the Army and a former Raytheon executive,
    At least he was in the army.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  3. #2838
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Mister Esper also used to battle the Teen Titans and the Titans West.

    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  4. #2839
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    And here's Liz Cheney making an ass of herself by trying to school AOC about concentration camps.

    Please @AOC do us all a favor and spend just a few minutes learning some actual history. 6 million Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust. You demean their memory and disgrace yourself with comments like this.

  5. #2840

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    Well, Cheney's right.

    The comparison between citizens who were murdered by the millions, and people who have no right to be in the country and aren't being murdered is absurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    While everyone is distracted by Trumps crazy hijinks history is literally repeating itself.

    Oklahoma base set for migrant site was originally WWII internment camp.

    The Trump administration is planning to, or already has been moving immigrant families and orphaned children to military bases. This will of course make it extremely difficult for aid workers, legal representation or the press to contact any of these families or monitor their treatment.

    Trump's new plans for immigrants: Jail them on Military Bases.

    Not coincidentally, the administration is also trying to loosen restrictions on the treatment of immigrant children. Perhaps an attempt to get ahead of any facts that happen to come to light in the next few years when the "crisis" has passed, the dust has settled and the truth comes out.
    Just because two things happen in the same location doesn't mean it's the same thing.

    There are areas that are Revolutionary War/ Civil War battlefields. It doesn't mean a modern argument about politics between residents there is an indication of another war.

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    There are some reasons to be skeptical of those specific allegations against Jones.

    The FBI hasn't arrested him yet, and it's possible that the reason that he had received child porn (there's no indication that he sent any to anyone) was that someone who doesn't like him sent it to him unsolicited. We can probably agree that he has earned more enemies than most public of private figures. If he knew he was regularly engaging in a serious crime, it would be a very stupid move to give the FBI evidence of wrongdoing.

    Trial lawyer Max Kennerly sums it up.

    https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/stat...24084835307526

    Granted, I doubt he would have the same caution when dealing with his opponents. And he might be crazy enough to be very reckless with evidence of criminal wrongdoing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I got 90%. The one that killed me was that I didn't make the dive big enough for the NY murder rate.
    I think I underestimated the low crime figures early on, and started the dive a few years early.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I'm sorry I need to lay it out in very specific detail for you to understand mets.

    Here in the uk/europe you cant just refuse to serve someone based on "Your morals" which are so loosely defined you can easily sub it in for bigotry. It also is a dogwhistle for said bigotry. Now Sarah Sanders wasnt bigotry however, she wasnt removed because she was a different ethnicity or sexuality, merely because she serves a horrible political system that is factually harming many. Its similar to places refusing service to Nazis.
    I understand clearly. But if the argument is that one shouldn't refuse service due to morals, it doesn't matter whether someone is opposed to a protected class or an individual. The opposition is still moral. "Do your job" remains a potential response.

    There are some further questions. If it's okay to deny services due to political disagreement, although this then sets a questionable standard going forward. Should someone pro-life deny services to a supporter of abortion? You can also argue that in most cases it isn't okay to deny services due to a political disagreement, but that Sarah Huckabee Sanders was so vile, it is merited in her case, which still gets to the question of who gets to determine the line.

  6. #2841
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    Mets : Concentration camps arent concentration camps, even when award winning historians agree that Trumps camps are actually concentration camps.

    Also Mets : But muh slippery slope on refusing service.

    Your more worried about the idea of slippery slopes WHILST ITS HAPPENING.

  7. #2842
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Just because two things happen in the same location doesn't mean it's the same thing.
    The parallels are overt enough for those who wish to see them.
    It also implies an uncaring attitude in Trumps administration and the GOP in general with regards to the optics.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
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  8. #2843
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    The parallels are overt enough for those who wish to see them.
    It also implies an uncaring attitude in Trumps administration and the GOP in general with regards to the optics.
    They no longer give a *bleep*. Trump both knows and lives in denial over the prospect that he is going down the spiral drain into a hell of his own making once this is over and he's out of office. Republicans are either too afraid to act, too much in denial as well, or too greedy. Either way, they are trapped in the swamp. The world is collapsing around them and they no long give a *Bleeping* *Bleep*.
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
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  9. #2844
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Mets : Concentration camps arent concentration camps, even when award winning historians agree that Trumps camps are actually concentration camps.

    Also Mets : But muh slippery slope on refusing service.
    Yep -- the hypocrisy has already been duly noted and well-documented.

    All that talk of "open borders" is just to justify Trump's cruelty -- he's just doing exactly what many Republicans always wanted to do, but wouldn't.

    ------
    "concentration camp -- a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard"

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...tration%20camp


    ----

    "An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border"

    "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz."

    "Surely, the United States of America could not operate concentration camps. In the American consciousness, the term is synonymous with the Nazi death machines across the European continent that the Allies began the process of dismantling 75 years ago this month. But while the world-historical horrors of the Holocaust are unmatched, they are only the most extreme and inhuman manifestation of a concentration-camp system—which, according to Andrea Pitzer, author of One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps, has a more global definition. There have been concentration camps in France, South Africa, Cuba, the Soviet Union, and—with Japanese internment—the United States. In fact, she contends we are operating such a system right now in response to a very real spike in arrivals at our southern border.

    “We have what I would call a concentration camp system,” Pitzer says, “and the definition of that in my book is, mass detention of civilians without trial.”

    Historians use a broader definition of concentration camps, as well.

    "What's required is a little bit of demystification of it," says Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia. "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz. Concentration camps in general have always been designed—at the most basic level—to separate one group of people from another group. Usually, because the majority group, or the creators of the camp, deem the people they're putting in it to be dangerous or undesirable in some way."

    Not every concentration camp is a death camp—in fact, their primary purpose is rarely extermination, and never in the beginning. Often, much of the death and suffering is a result of insufficient resources, overcrowding, and deteriorating conditions. So far, 24 people have died in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement under the Trump administration, while six children have died in the care of other agencies since September. Systems like these have emerged across the world for well over 100 years, and they've been established by putative liberal democracies—as with Britain's camps in South Africa during the Boer War—as well as authoritarian states like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union..."

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...ilities-trump/
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 06-18-2019 at 04:30 PM.

  10. #2845
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Trump and Mets have at least one thing in common, neither can ever admit they are wrong.

    Trump still claiming the Central Park Five are guilty.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donal...b0f7b744284cf7
    Last edited by Kirby101; 06-18-2019 at 04:59 PM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  11. #2846

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    The parallels are overt enough for those who wish to see them.
    It also implies an uncaring attitude in Trumps administration and the GOP in general with regards to the optics.
    I'll agree that they don't care that much about optics, although they shouldn't. An argument about optics essentially ignores the important things, and suggests time and money be wasted on something insubstantial.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Mets : Concentration camps arent concentration camps, even when award winning historians agree that Trumps camps are actually concentration camps.

    Also Mets : But muh slippery slope on refusing service.

    Your more worried about the idea of slippery slopes WHILST ITS HAPPENING.
    I'm concerned you guys haven't considered the implications on another topic, so I'll write about the slippery slope.

    I don't really have to convince you of the problems of treating illegal immigrants harshly.

    Here, I'm considering the implications of what you want, and what the Democrats seem to be doing.

    Should this be a way for people to become citizens of the US? Is this worth the tradeoff of encouraging people to risk the lives of their children (it's also possible that even if some kids die as a result of the journey, more would have died if they stayed home.)





    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Yep -- the hypocrisy has already been duly noted and well-documented.

    All that talk of "open borders" is just to justify Trump's cruelty -- he's just doing exactly what many Republicans always wanted to do, but wouldn't.

    ------
    "concentration camp -- a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard"

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...tration%20camp


    ----

    "An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border"

    "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz."

    "Surely, the United States of America could not operate concentration camps. In the American consciousness, the term is synonymous with the Nazi death machines across the European continent that the Allies began the process of dismantling 75 years ago this month. But while the world-historical horrors of the Holocaust are unmatched, they are only the most extreme and inhuman manifestation of a concentration-camp system—which, according to Andrea Pitzer, author of One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps, has a more global definition. There have been concentration camps in France, South Africa, Cuba, the Soviet Union, and—with Japanese internment—the United States. In fact, she contends we are operating such a system right now in response to a very real spike in arrivals at our southern border.

    “We have what I would call a concentration camp system,” Pitzer says, “and the definition of that in my book is, mass detention of civilians without trial.”

    Historians use a broader definition of concentration camps, as well.

    "What's required is a little bit of demystification of it," says Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia. "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz. Concentration camps in general have always been designed—at the most basic level—to separate one group of people from another group. Usually, because the majority group, or the creators of the camp, deem the people they're putting in it to be dangerous or undesirable in some way."

    Not every concentration camp is a death camp—in fact, their primary purpose is rarely extermination, and never in the beginning. Often, much of the death and suffering is a result of insufficient resources, overcrowding, and deteriorating conditions. So far, 24 people have died in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement under the Trump administration, while six children have died in the care of other agencies since September. Systems like these have emerged across the world for well over 100 years, and they've been established by putative liberal democracies—as with Britain's camps in South Africa during the Boer War—as well as authoritarian states like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union..."

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...ilities-trump/
    It's pretty easy to conclude that Democrats are for open borders if they think detaining people who shouldn't be in the country is equivalent to concentration camps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Trump and Mets have at least one thing in common, neither can ever admit they are wrong.

    Trump still claiming the Central Park Five are guilty.
    I'm pretty capable of admitting error. I underestimated Trump's chances of winning the Republican nomination, and the White House.

    If you guys want to ask me about anything I've said before, I'll address any point on previous statements. I've got hundreds of statements (might even more than a thousand at this point) in the various political threads.

    I am generally careful to have caveats, and to avoid saying something that is certainly false. My more absolute statements are in response to others taking absolute positions.

  12. #2847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It's pretty easy to conclude that Democrats are for open borders if they think detaining people who shouldn't be in the country is equivalent to concentration camps.
    Mets -- it's a concentration camp by definition.

    "concentration camp -- a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard"

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...tration%20camp

    As you support a party that denies climate change it's hard to take you seriously when you try to argue "facts" -- including those regarding concentration camps.

    And the above reasoning is ridiculous -- pointing out the definition of a concentration camp is not any proof whatsoever that Democrats are for open borders, especially when many of those pointing this out are historians and scholars.

    -----
    "As historian of fascism & Holocaust, I would also call these centers concentrations camps. As a Jewish person who lost family in Holocaust, I regret that some Republicans use memory of the Holocaust to defend racist policies of trumpism."

    https://twitter.com/FinchelsteinF/st...04049795870720
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 06-18-2019 at 05:20 PM.

  13. #2848
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Technicalities and BS legalism as a defense for immoral actions. Where have I heard that before?

  14. #2849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Should this be a way for people to become citizens of the US? Is this worth the tradeoff of encouraging people to risk the lives of their children (it's also possible that even if some kids die as a result of the journey, more would have died if they stayed home.)
    Giving them a path to citizenship is the least that we could do, these countries are unstable and dangerous in large part due to centuries of American intervention that continues to this day, otherwise why else would they risk their lives to migrate to a country where so much of the population is irrationally hostile towards them? Of course if the Latino population grows enough they may actually amass enough voting power to force the government to stop meddling in Latin American affairs, and that's just unacceptable...

  15. #2850

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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Giving them a path to citizenship is the least that we could do, these countries are unstable and dangerous in large part due to centuries of American intervention that continues to this day, otherwise why else would they risk their lives to migrate to a country where so much of the population is irrationally hostile towards them? Of course if the Latino population grows enough they may actually amass enough voting power to force the government to stop meddling in Latin American affairs, and that's just unacceptable...
    I welcome Democrats making this argument, rather than having it be the subtext.

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