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  1. #9346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    I too want to see how it plays out. Initial posts here accused the cops of a coverup. Such a claim is well beyond skepticism.
    I'd like to agree with you on the basis of simple logic, but based on what I've seen both in print and in real life, I know better than to assume one way or the other when it comes to the police and black "suspects".

    Which is why I say I prefer to wait until all of the facts are out before reaching any conclusion.

  2. #9347
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    I'd like to agree with you on the basis of simple logic, but based on what I've seen both in print and in real life, I know better than to assume one way or the other when it comes to the police and black "suspects".

    Which is why I say I prefer to wait until all of the facts are out before reaching any conclusion.
    Well that is justified skepticism to which I take no issue. Immediately responding to the press conference with accusations of lying are not justified IMO.

  3. #9348
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I have always bee weary of the police. And that was before I was arrested and went to prison. Now I am not bitter at the cops because of my record. I committed a crime and I paid for it. In fact going to prison was the best thing that ever happened to me. But I wont get into that right now. The police I have encountered while I was on Parole and even now have not been good events. They start out nice but when they run my name and find out I have a record they get very rude. I have a mental health disorder, I needed to go to the hospital and called 911 because things were very dark. A police officer was the first to arrive. Knew me and before he would call an ambulance for me he ran my name to see if I had any open warrants. Then he called my parole officer to see if I had done anything that he wanted me back in jail for. My dad was telling him that I needed to get to a hospital. What does he do? He puts my father in cuffs. So no I have very little love for the police. I am sure there are good ones but I have not met too many of them.
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  4. #9349
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Democrats and liberals that you selectively pick and choose while ignoring almost anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

    At least when I say that Republicans are corrupt liars and racists who inflate the deficit and cause economic downturns nearly every time they are in power, I can back it up with actual data.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/polit...dio/index.html

    https://theintercept.com/2019/09/23/...orida-alabama/

    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...in-seven-years

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...low-2019-10-09

    Meanwhile, you infer Democrats are for "open borders" and don't have a reasonable immigration plan based on no real data whatsoever -- just your own selective bias which conveniently allows you to ignore all the faults within your own party.

    Up to and including Trump and the openly malicious separation of children from their families.
    You didn't quote the entirety of my post, or address my understanding that Democrats and liberals are typically not expressing any comments about a limiting principle on legal immigration.

    There are multiple potential responses.

    If prominent Democrats have expressed a limiting principle, someone could link to that.

    I ask what you guys have inferred, if in fact Democrats have not expressed an opinion on one of the most significant policy questions: what limits, if any, should there be on legal immigration, and someone can infer something that reflects positively on the Democratic party. Or they can make the argument that this some kind of clearly expressed upper limit on legal immigration is not an important policy question, or link to someone else's argument about how this is not a question important enough to expect any elected official to address or any media outlet to cover.

    I've also written that Democrats seem unwilling to express an opinion on anyone who should be deported aside from felons or those just processed at the border, and anyone can respond by pointing out that Cory Booker or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have described groups they want to see deported.

    A common response to my comments has been to look at the numbers of undocumented immigrants coming in over the Obama administration, or to consider what legislation has been proposed. The problem with the former approach is that so far, it's more about the economic circumstances in those countries than any American policy (this may change if we adopt a system of decriminalizing border crossings.) And proposed framework for bipartisan legislation also isn't reflective of what the Democrats would do if they didn't have to worry about a Republican-controlled Senate or the Republican President.

    I've given this link before but Andrew Sullivan has written about his understanding of the Democratic party's positions on immigration pretty well.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...migration.html

    Last month alone, 144,000 people were detained at the border making an asylum claim. This year, about a million Central Americans will have relocated to the U.S. on those grounds. To add to this, a big majority of the candidates in the Democratic debates also want to remove the grounds for detention at all, by repealing the 1929 law that made illegal entry a criminal offense and turning it into a civil one. And almost all of them said that if illegal immigrants do not commit a crime once they’re in the U.S., they should be allowed to become citizens.

    How, I ask, is that not practically open borders? The answer I usually get is that all these millions will have to, at some point, go to court hearings and have their asylum cases adjudicated. The trouble with that argument is that only 44 percent actually turn up for their hearings; and those who do show up and whose claims nonetheless fail can simply walk out of the court and know they probably won’t be deported in the foreseeable future.

    Immigration and Customs Enforcement forcibly removed 256,086 people in 2018, 57 percent of whom had committed crimes since they arrived in the U.S. So that’s an annual removal rate of 2 percent of the total undocumented population of around 12 million. That means that for 98 percent of undocumented aliens, in any given year, no consequences will follow for crossing the border without papers. At the debates this week, many Democratic candidates argued that the 43 percent of deportees who had no criminal record in America should not have been expelled at all and been put instead on a path to citizenship. So that would reduce the annual removal rate of illegal immigrants to a little more than 1 percent per year. In terms of enforcement of the immigration laws, this is a joke. It renders the distinction between a citizen and a noncitizen close to meaningless.

    None of this reality was allowed to intervene in the Democratic debates this week. At one point, one moderator tellingly spoke about Obama’s record of deporting ” 3 million Americans.” In that bubble, there were no negatives to mass immigration at all, and no concern for existing American citizens’ interests in not having their wages suppressed through this competition. There was no concession that child separation and “metering” at the border to slow the crush were both innovated by Obama, trying to manage an overwhelmed system. Candidates vied with each other to speak in Spanish. Every single one proposed amnesty for all those currently undocumented in the U.S., except for criminals. Every single one opposes a wall. There was unanimous support for providing undocumented immigrants immediately with free health care. There was no admission that Congress needed to tighten asylum law. There was no concern that the Flores decision had massively incentivized bringing children to game the system, leaving so many vulnerable to untold horrors on a journey no child should ever be forced to make.

    What emerged was their core message to the world: Get here without papers and you’ll receive humane treatment while you’re processed, you’ll never be detained, you’ll get work permits immediately, and you’ll have access to publicly funded health care and a path to citizenship if you don’t commit a crime. This amounts to an open invitation to anyone on the planet to just show up and cross the border. The worst that can happen is you get denied asylum by a judge, in which case you can just disappear and there’s a 1 percent chance that you’ll be caught in a given year. Who wouldn’t take those odds?
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  5. #9350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    You didn't quote the entirety of my post, or address my understanding that Democrats and liberals are typically not expressing any comments about a limiting principle on legal immigration.
    Because that's yet another selectively biased inference of yours not backed by actual immigration data and therefore not worth even addressing.

    You pick and choose what you want to believe, which is why it's pointless to engage you on a factual level.

    Linking to opinion pieces is not a valid substitute for real data based on actual Democratic legislation and rule (Clinton and Obama).

    Like many Republicans, your perspective is based on fear, which is why Trump plays your party like a fiddle.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 10-09-2019 at 07:03 PM.

  6. #9351
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    People are capable of really stupid things. The President of the United States made the phone call to Ukraine suggesting they dig up dirt up on Biden the day after Mueller testified to Congress.

    One thing that I'm critical of here is the sense of certainty of a massive conspiracy. The claim isn't that this is suspicious and merits further investigation but that it is so obvious we should all have a clear idea on what happened. I don't think there's any doubt or ambiguity in Squirrelman's "Are they even trying anymore?"

    While anonymous person we've never heard of being involved in something stupid at a time when they would face heavy scrutiny seems unlikely, you do have to consider the likelihood of the alternative which would at this point have to be multiple police officers taking massive risks in a state with the death penalty in order to murder a witness after the trial ended (with an outcome that wasn't terrible for the police given the general agreement that the defendant was in the wrong, the relatively lenient sentence, the public approval of the murder finding and the hug between the defendant and the victim's brother) and then cover up the murder.
    For what it’s worth, I think less people believe in a genuine ‘conspiracy’ than simply have lost faith in police to fairly prosecute and pursue black men without making up wild stories to justify brutality and murder and excessive punishments. It happens too often, has happened for far too long, and the whole ‘shot in the mouth after testifying against cops...oops, never mind, that totally didn’t happen!’ aspect PLUS what appears to be a smear effort against Brown being basically the same effort used to smear Botham Jean after HIS murder, but bigger.

    It looks suspicious because the behavior of cops all over the country - and ESPECIALLY the cops in Jean’s area - has MADE people suspicious.
    Last edited by zinderel; 10-09-2019 at 07:03 PM.

  7. #9352
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    Raleigh, N.C. — A powerful state legislator borrowed half a million dollars last year from a man later indicted and accused of trying to bribe another state official.
    House Rules Chairman David Lewis said his farm in Harnett County needed help, and he turned to a friend and fellow farmer, John Gray. Gray loaned him $500,000 in June 2018 for what was supposed to be four months.
    Deeds of trust filed in the deal show that Lewis and his wife, along with their farm and property company, put up land in four North Carolina counties as collateral. The loan has not been repaid, and Gray has not foreclosed on the properties as the deeds indicate he could.
    Hurricane Florence hit two months after the loan closed, causing "catastrophic loss" at Lewis' farm, the lawmaker said. Gray, who Lewis said he's known for about 10 years, agreed to extend the loan.
    Lewis, R-Harnett, said Gray never asked for anything from the legislature in return. Lewis said he didn't know about Gray's impending legal trouble at the time.
    https://www.wral.com/key-nc-legislat...arge/18684641/

  8. #9353
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Oh f************k off with that.

    Trump downplays U.S. alliance with Syrian Kurds, saying "they didn’t help us in the Second World War" https://t.co/IucYMS1HaP

  9. #9354
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    One of the 'Largest Radical Anti-Government Groups' in U.S. Will Escort Republicans at Trump Minneapolis Rally

    Republicans at President Donald Trump's rally in Minneapolis on Thursday will reportedly be escorted by a typically heavily armed group that has been called "one of the largest radical anti-government groups in the U.S. today."

    That is how the Southern Poverty Law Center describes the Oath Keepers, who refer to themselves as "guardians of the republic." On the group's website, it describes itself as a "non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders, who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to 'defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.'"

    The Oath Keepers posted an alert on their site on Saturday stating volunteers were needed to "protect Trump supporters" at Trump's rally.

    "The violent communists of Antifa have issued a national call to action for Antifa and other radical, America hating leftists to converge on the upcoming Trump rally in Minneapolis on Oct 10 to 'disrupt' the Trump rally with an Antifa black block 'America is Canceled' protest against capitalism," the alert states. "We also expect trouble from the same radical leftists in Minneapolis that assaulted Trump supporters in 2016."

    Oath Keepers plan to provide volunteer security escorts for Trump rally attendees to and from the Target Center.
    But the group's history is not the cleanest. The president of Oath Keepers' suburban Cleveland chapter got a prison sentence for storing bombs, and another member was convicted of raping his daughter, according to City Pages, an alternative Minneapolis-area newspaper. Oath Keepers showed up heavily armed at protests in Ferguson, Missouri.

    Oath Keepers formed in 2009 after Barack Obama was elected president. They claim they will vet the rally volunteers and reject convicted felons and anyone who "advocates the overthrow of the U.S. government or that discriminates along racial lines."
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    Last edited by Tami; 10-09-2019 at 07:42 PM.
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  10. #9355

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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Well, if we should say "F*** 'em to anyone who won't stand up to Nazis..."

    F*** Trump.
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  11. #9356
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    For what it’s worth, I think less people believe in a genuine ‘conspiracy’ than simply have lost faith in police to fairly prosecute and pursue black men without making up wild stories to justify brutality and murder and excessive punishments. It happens too often, has happened for far too long, and the whole ‘shot in the mouth after testifying against cops...oops, never mind, that totally didn’t happen!’ aspect PLUS what appears to be a smear effort against Brown being basically the same effort used to smear Botham Jean after HIS murder, but bigger.

    It looks suspicious because the behavior of cops all over the country - and ESPECIALLY the cops in Jean’s area - has MADE people suspicious.
    The issue is that you have a lot of folks filling in the blanks on that angle while not even addressing that the lawyer representing Brown's family just pointed out that he was shot in what looks like an attempted murder less than a year ago.

    Never mind filling in any of the blanks when it comes to that the guy is someone who was the victim of a gunshot in an attempted murder less than a year ago.

    The fact that folks are suspicious of the former while they seem to be completely ignoring the existence of the latter seems like it says something about the mindset of those folks.
    Last edited by numberthirty; 10-09-2019 at 07:53 PM.

  12. #9357
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Someone should let him know that Trumps didn't help us out in Vietnam.

  13. #9358
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    An Iowa teacher who said he wouldn't attend a climate rally featuring Greta Thunberg because he didn't have his 'sniper rifle' has been put on leave

    An Iowa high school teacher has been put on administrative leave after writing a Facebook post that some interpreted as a violent threat against teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg.

    The post, written by West High School science teacher Matt Baish, was in response to an article former student Mason Severson shared about Thunberg's appearance in Iowa City. Severson's caption read: "Who's all going ?"

    Baish responded by writing, "dont [sic] have my sniper rifle," KWWL reported.

    Baish's reply has since been deleted, but references and replies to it can still be seen in the comment section of Severson's post. Baish's statements received mixed reactions online, with some considering the phrase laced with violent innuendo while others interpreted it as mere sarcasm. Some of those who took offense demanded Baish's total removal from the school.

    The Waterloo Community School District did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment. The school's faculty social media policy asks employees to refrain from posts that include "threats of physical or bodily harm."
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  14. #9359
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    GOP official indicted for human smuggling and sale of children in bizarre international fraud scheme

    On Wednesday, NBC News reported that Maricopa County assessor Paul Petersen has been indicted on 11 counts, including human smuggling and sale of a child, as part of a far-reaching international adoption fraud scheme.

    Petersen, according to prosecutors, transported some 40 pregnant women from the Marshall Islands to Utah to give birth, and proceeded to sell the babies to U.S. families for $40,000. He also is accused of fraudulently billing Medicaid for the prenatal costs, by claiming the Marshallese women were residents of Arizona.
    A Republican, Peterson was first appointed to the position of Maricopa County assessor in 2013 after serving as the office’s liaison to the legislature, and won a regularly scheduled election unopposed in 2016.

    His adoption law practice first came under scrutiny by the Honolulu Civil Beat in 2018. He was taken into custody by the Arizona Department of Public Safety, Homeland Security Investigations, and officials from the Utah Attorney General’s Office.
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  15. #9360

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    But the GOP don't understand why they get compared to the Handmaid's Tale... how could that be?
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