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  1. #9331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I just said that I could understand why people are skeptical given the history of police retaliation in this country. I didn't say it couldn't be true. I also think people don't understand just how petty, corrupt, and vindictive police in this country frequently are.
    Mistrust of police is warranted. Allowing that mistrust to completely eliminate your ability to judge sitiations based on probability and good sense is no longer rational.

    We dont need to invent conspiratorial horsecrap to have mistrust. They are doing just fine beings dicks withput that. But mistrust without the decency to be fair and rational about it eliminates the validity of the complaints.
    Last edited by Theleviathan; 10-08-2019 at 08:24 PM.

  2. #9332
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    One other thing about it...

    I don't hear anyone laying the other possibility out.

    Let's say you are some who is in that business. Let's say you get downwind of that someone that you have crossed paths with enough to get you in trouble starts testifying?

    There is really no realistic scenario when a criminal decides to take that loose end out of the equation?

    Criminals have never killed other criminals over less?
    Last edited by numberthirty; 10-08-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  3. #9333
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Idiots get that far all the time! See: current incarcerations. See: Florida Man. Criminals also step into the positive spotlight when offered. It gives them character cover with the gullible or conspiracy inclined.

    And none of that is necessary because the idea the cops drove a state over for three fall guys, convinced one to get shot and go to the hospital, and got them to take the fall is ridiculous.

    You should really be ashamed your three posts into tgis already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    They fled because there was a murder and one of them was shot! .....the hell guys?

    Skepticism is warranted to a point. Now you're just being silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Mistrust of police is warranted. Allowing that mistrust to completely eliminate your ability to judge sitiations based on probability and good sense is no longer rational.

    We dont need to invent conspiratorial horsecrap to have mistrust. They are doing just fine beings dicks withput that. But mistrust without the decency to be fair and rational about it eliminates the validity of the complaints.
    I'm not advocating for a particular theory, but I don't trust this story. Because I doubt it based on my own cynicism and the preponderance of racist assholes in authority covering each others asses you are freaking out to the point of putting words in my mouth and questioning whether or not I can be rational. If you wanted I could spin potential fictional theories of what threats could compel them or reasons those guys could be in Dallas and available to be used as fall guys and all but I'm not doing that. This doesn't pass the smell test, and I stand by that cynicism. If it compels you to try and shame me in some freak out keep on going, I'm a MST3k/Rifftrax fan and could use the laughs.

  4. #9334
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Mistrust of police is warranted. Allowing that mistrust to completely eliminate your ability to judge sitiations based on probability and good sense is no longer rational.

    We dont need to invent conspiratorial horsecrap to have mistrust. They are doing just fine beings dicks withput that. But mistrust without the decency to be fair and rational about it eliminates the validity of the complaints.
    The probability that a witness gets shot in the mouth a day after a cop is sentenced to ten years is pretty alarmingly low to begin with, but hey, it conveniently turns out he was also a drug dealer! I mean, yeah, all that could happen. I'm not gonna hold it against anyone for thinking the whole thing stinks right out of the gate. Yes, it could all be true, but plenty of reasonable people with the experience to know better are gonna say 'this stinks'.

    What you find is that reality isn't very realistic, after all.

    I guess we'll find out who's right if Guyger gets an appeal and her conviction overturned as a result in a couple years.

  5. #9335
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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  6. #9336
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    The probability that a witness gets shot in the mouth a day after a cop is sentenced to ten years is pretty alarmingly low to begin with, but hey, it conveniently turns out he was also a drug dealer! I mean, yeah, all that could happen. I'm not gonna hold it against anyone for thinking the whole thing stinks right out of the gate. Yes, it could all be true, but plenty of reasonable people with the experience to know better are gonna say 'this stinks'.

    What you find is that reality isn't very realistic, after all.

    I guess we'll find out who's right if Guyger gets an appeal and her conviction overturned as a result in a couple years.
    Dude, come on.

    No red flags here? None at all that you have heard about or can think of?

  7. #9337
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Dude, come on.

    No red flags here? None at all that you have heard about or can think of?
    I'm literally not saying anything beyond saying that I understand why some folks say have reason to be skeptical based on the initial information'. That's it. Save your 'dude come ons' for someone else.

  8. #9338
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I'm literally not saying anything beyond 'Yeah, some folks have reason to be skeptical'. That's it. Save your 'dude come ons' for someone else.
    Look...

    While I'm not even that up to speed on this, I have read the following...

    - https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ma...562267151.html

    Witness in Guyger Trial Shot, Killed at Dallas Apartment Complex
    Attorney Lee Merritt represents the Jean family — and now, the Brown family.

    "It's troubling to say the least," Merritt said. "Anytime someone is killed, it's sad. But, this murder that happened this close to a major trial against a police officer raises a lot of eyebrows and it caught me off guard."

    Merritt also said it's possible Friday's shooting was not related to the trial at all.

    "He had a personal beef that I'm just starting to learn about that caused him to be shot less than a year ago," Merritt said.

    Brown was shot after a fight at Dallas Cabaret in November 2018. Another man, Nicholas Diggs, was shot and killed. Brown's injury was minor.

    "My understand from what I'm hearing is he (Brown) was the intended target," Merritt said. "There is something there that we're learning more about."

  9. #9339
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    I'll spot folks that they may not even be aware of that article.

    That said, folks are throwing around a lot of "People Who Know..." sort of stuff.

    These "People Who Know..."?

    Have they even bothered to try to track down that piece of information? Are they going to try to undermine the lawyer that actually represents the dead guy's family?

    That is "Initial Information".

    It's just funny how it isn't really coming up when these "People Who Know..." start talking.
    Last edited by numberthirty; 10-08-2019 at 09:45 PM.

  10. #9340
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    I'll spot folks that they may not even be aware of that article.
    Gee. The very article you cite notes that it raises a lot of eyebrows and I'm going to point out that all anyone here has done is raise them themselves. So again: save your 'red flag dude come ons' gibberish for anyone else.

    But of course, the /police/ aren't saying that this was tied to any previous issues atm, as far as I know. They're saying three guys drove hundreds of miles to buy weed from a guy who was conveniently a drug dealer /and/ a major witness against a police officer, so that's what 'people' are responding to.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 10-08-2019 at 09:51 PM.

  11. #9341
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Gee. The very article you cite notes that it raises a lot of eyebrows and I'm going to point out that all anyone here has done is raise them themselves. So again: save your 'red flag dude come ons' gibberish for anyone else.

    But of course, the /police/ aren't saying that this was tied to any previous issues atm, as far as I know. They're saying three guys drove hundreds of miles to buy weed from a guy who was conveniently a drug dealer /and/ a major witness against a police officer, so that's what 'people' are responding to.
    Sure...

    That said, they are ignoring that it looks like someone tried to murder the guy less than a year ago while they focus on what the police are saying.

  12. #9342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    I'm not advocating for a particular theory, but I don't trust this story. Because I doubt it based on my own cynicism and the preponderance of racist assholes in authority covering each others asses you are freaking out to the point of putting words in my mouth and questioning whether or not I can be rational. If you wanted I could spin potential fictional theories of what threats could compel them or reasons those guys could be in Dallas and available to be used as fall guys and all but I'm not doing that. This doesn't pass the smell test, and I stand by that cynicism. If it compels you to try and shame me in some freak out keep on going, I'm a MST3k/Rifftrax fan and could use the laughs.
    The alternative is more ridiculous. Your cynicism and personal politics are overshadowing rationality.

    I dont question "can" you be rational, I am questioning why you seem intent on turning it off.

  13. #9343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    The probability that a witness gets shot in the mouth a day after a cop is sentenced to ten years is pretty alarmingly low to begin with, but hey, it conveniently turns out he was also a drug dealer! I mean, yeah, all that could happen. I'm not gonna hold it against anyone for thinking the whole thing stinks right out of the gate. Yes, it could all be true, but plenty of reasonable people with the experience to know better are gonna say 'this stinks'.

    What you find is that reality isn't very realistic, after all.

    I guess we'll find out who's right if Guyger gets an appeal and her conviction overturned as a result in a couple years.
    Drug dealing isnt exactly a safe business. The participants are rarely super rational either.

    I'd suggest your last paragraph is the problem. There simply isnt a basis for that claim without a lot changing in this story.

    The chief had kind words for the young man. They did nothing to smear him until they had evidence to get warrants and even then spoke kindly.

    I suppose the Dallas police could be sitting around twirling their moustaches as they succesfully concoct elaborate schemes that would make criminal masterminds blush....but cmon.

  14. #9344
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post

    I'd suggest your last paragraph is the problem. There simply isnt a basis for that claim without a lot changing in this story.
    Sure, there is. A key witness turning out to be a secret drug dealer is almost certain to come up if Guyger decides on appeal. If I were her, I wouldn't, but I'm not the one looking at a ten year stretch either.

    Also, I think you're overestimating the level of complexity involved in something like that.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 10-08-2019 at 11:31 PM.

  15. #9345
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    The alternative is more ridiculous. Your cynicism and personal politics are overshadowing rationality.

    I dont question "can" you be rational, I am questioning why you seem intent on turning it off.
    Doubting the story given by the police isn't believing that Lizard people are running the Illuminati in their quest to hide the fact that Earth is Flat like you are trying to make out. Nor is it assuming the Dallas police are Xanathos-level schemers or too dumb to bang rocks together. You can question things without instantly endorsing the worst conspiracy theories after all, unless you think saying "I think Bill Clinton was into some hinky shit" is the equivalent of saying he and Epstein summoned up Moloch in the Pizzagate catacombs.

    tl:dr Settle Down Beavis

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