All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[PaulBullion]

I know being obnoxious is your schtick but I literally posted last page that police deserve mistrust. The "I trust police 100%" are stupid. So is sitting on the opposite side of that. You are literally demonstrating my point.

Regardless of your political views it is dangerous and foolish to abandon truth for political favoritism. Reading this police report of his death and immediately going to "**** the police" is being intentionally stupid.

Dalak is actually one of the more civil posters. People disagreeing with your naive trust in cops is not "being obnoxious."

[Mister Mets]

Then you havent considered what would have to happen to pull off a setup. It is preposterous. Try considering the layers of danger and vulnerability this plan would have as a hit gone wrong. Like how no one talked about the setup even after one got shot. Or why they had three people in on the hit. (Every person is a loose end. Exponentially so after it went wrong) How it happened in a relativrly public place. How it happened immediately after the trial while public awareness was high. And most ridiculous? How you plan to pay them for the hit and somehow pivot to getting to accept murder charges without talking. It is Lizaerd People level.

And that's the more plausible scenario.

This would also have to be a situation in which multiple cops agree to participate in a murder and/ or framing someone else (and getting those people largely on-board) for a very public crime.

If one person who is asked to participate in a risky and moral endeavor goes to either the media or the authorities, the rest go to jail.

Even if you have a bunch of scumbags in a police department willing to commit murder and trusting others around them to feel the same way, there is always the possibility that someone under investigation for another offense (it would seem unlikely for a group of cops to engage in this level of criminality for the first and only time) will go to the authorities to make a plea deal. In which case, the rest still go to jail.

So the level of risk is extraordinary.

Yes, because all confessions are true.

I never said that all confessions are true. That doesn't make the existence of a given confession meaningless, especially absent any allegation that it was obtained through sketchy means.

[Dalak]

Then you havent considered what would have to happen to pull off a setup. It is preposterous. Try considering the layers of danger and vulnerability this plan would have as a hit gone wrong. Like how no one talked about the setup even after one got shot. Or why they had three people in on the hit. (Every person is a loose end. Exponentially so after it went wrong) How it happened in a relativrly public place. How it happened immediately after the trial while public awareness was high. And most ridiculous? How you plan to pay them for the hit and somehow pivot to getting to accept murder charges without talking. It is Lizaerd People level.

And that's the more plausible scenario.

Your imagination is lacking if you think that's the 'most plausible scenario' which could fit this situation, but it would all be speculation. These guys don't have to have been the ones who pulled the trigger, just take the fall to prevent family/loved ones from being targeted in retaliation, having proved they'll do it by the corpse they are taking the blame for and the gunshot put into one of them to ensure the proper fear. This is not what I believe, but it is a 'plausible' scenario that can fit the circumstances. The cops don't have to be machiavellian as you suggest, just cruel and violent given the assumption that they are trying to cover up retaliation for a police officer being punished for the killing of one black man by killing another.

Dalak is actually one of the more civil posters. People disagreeing with your naive trust in cops is not "being obnoxious."

Thanks, but I'm not going to pretend I don't obnoxiously mock those who open themselves up to it.



As for Mets' post: More and more Police have fallen back to circle the wagons when an officer is suspected of anything, seemingly regardless of evidence. This is not fiction but shown on the news for years now, Cops backing other Cops in the wrong isn't something outrageous.

[Celgress]

I just want to say Trump's new Sith Troopers look amazing um I mean Palpatine's. Their red armor is a nice change of pace.

PS I thought this thread could you a little levity.

[Tami]

I just want to say Trump's new Sith Troopers look amazing um I mean Palpatine's. Their red armor is a nice change of pace.

PS I thought this thread could you a little levity.

[Theleviathan]

Your imagination is lacking if you think that's the 'most plausible scenario' which could fit this situation, but it would all be speculation. These guys don't have to have been the ones who pulled the trigger, just take the fall to prevent family/loved ones from being targeted in retaliation, having proved they'll do it by the corpse they are taking the blame for and the gunshot put into one of them to ensure the proper fear. This is not what I believe, but it is a 'plausible' scenario that can fit the circumstances. The cops don't have to be machiavellian as you suggest, just cruel and violent given the assumption that they are trying to cover up retaliation for a police officer being punished for the killing of one black man by killing another.

Cruel and violent would be easy to unravel. I just laid out several layers of absurd risk..pause..unnecessary huge risk! A racist, cruel, violent cop need not travel to another state to find three black guys to do something he clearly has no problem doing! Its significantly more risky than doing it himself. Involves no payoffs, threats, risk of snitching or anything else. Unlike the situation you just described which rewuires the most risk oblivious human on the planet or a mastermind. But your response, rather that to recognize the obvious absurdity, was to go further down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

That is not skepticism. That is making up your mind irregardless of the facts (based on your politics) and then letting your imagination go hog wild. That isn't justifiable skepticism. It's exactly what I said at the outset....conspiratorial nonsense.

So you wasted both our time denying something you've gone on to openly demonstrate. Fool is right. Stick with the one thing you said that made any sense.

[aja_christopher]

Not taking a side -- just pointing out that there's no point in arguing about it until all of the facts are out there.

------
"Inspector General report shows at least 16 officers involved in cover-up of Laquan McDonald shooting"

"An internal report investigating 16 police personnel involved in covering up the 2014 shooting of Laquan McDonald by a former Chicago police officer was released on Wednesday after being kept secret for nearly three years.

The formerly confidential report, written in 2016 by inspector general Joseph Ferguson, revealed that several officers committed numerous ethical and internal violations in order to cover up former officer Jason Van Dyke’s shooting of the 17-year-old including giving false statements “to exaggerate the threat McDonald posed.”

According to the report, Anthony Wojcik, a former Chicago Police Department lieutenant who was at the scene, improperly disposed of three original general progress reports containing detectives’ handwritten notes of the statements of three civilian witnesses made the night of the shooting. He then "personally recreated the reports," before disposing of the original notes, the investigation showed.

The report also revealed that at least two officers, who were not fired after the inspector general’s investigation, untruthfully claimed they heard Van Dyke tell McDonald to drop a small weapon he was holding, and that the teen repeatedly ignored the officers calls to stay down.

The false statements served to "mischaracterize the events leading up to the McDonald shooting, and to thereby bolster a false narrative which might offer justification for the shooting," the report said.

The report found that the officers not only fabricated the details, they would not have been able to hear any interaction between Van Dyke and McDonald from where they were standing during the encounter. At least four officers who were present the night of the shooting failed to “visually and audibly record events” with in-car video systems, and were found to withhold and shield video evidence establishing what actually transpired between Van Dyke and McDonald, according to the report.

The inspector general recommended the firing of 11 individuals, but only four were let go, according to the NBC affiliate WMAQ. None of the four officers fired by the police board were charged criminally, however they were stripped of police powers and assigned to desk duty as their case proceeded, the Associated Press reported.

Former Sgt. Stephen Franko, who was fired for his role in the cover-up, was found to have reviewed and approved false reports submitted by Van Dyke and his partner regarding the night of the shooting.

Franko’s endorsement of those false statements "served to establish the false narrative that McDonald initiated an attack on Van Dyke,” the report stated."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...aquan-n1064401

[aja_christopher]

Any inferences are based on what I read from Democrats and liberals.

Democrats and liberals that you selectively pick and choose while ignoring almost anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

At least when I say that Republicans are corrupt liars and racists who inflate the deficit and cause economic downturns nearly every time they are in power, I can back it up with actual data.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/polit...dio/index.html

https://theintercept.com/2019/09/23/...orida-alabama/

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...in-seven-years

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...low-2019-10-09

Meanwhile, you infer Democrats are for "open borders" and don't have a reasonable immigration plan based on no real data whatsoever -- just your own selective bias which conveniently allows you to ignore all the faults within your own party.

Up to and including Trump and the openly malicious separation of children from their families.

[Theleviathan]

If this was cops protecting cops I would welcome all sorts of mistrust. We know the "thin blue line" is little more than orchestrated awful behavior.

Three black guys going to jail for murder do not have the same basis to aid in a cover up. They have incentive to do the exact opposite and could privately share any of it to their lawyers at any time.

[aja_christopher]

If this was cops protecting cops I would welcome all sorts of mistrust. We know the "thin blue line" is little more than orchestrated awful behavior.

Three black guys going to jail for murder do not have the same basis to aid in a cover up. They have incentive to do the exact opposite and could privately share any of it to their lawyers at any time.

If your argument is that it shouldn't be predetermined either way, then it makes a lot more sense to wait and see what the "three black guys" -- and the prosecutors -- have to say before reaching any conclusions.

In the era of the Central Park Five, even a confession isn't always the truth.

[Tami]

As public opinion on impeachment evolves, so does Republican Sen. Martha McSally, up in 2020

Republican Sen. Martha McSally of Arizona has undergone an abrupt shift on impeachment, from celebrating it as a "kamikaze mission” by Democrats to taking her role in the matter "very seriously."

A couple of weeks ago, McSally, who is up for reelection in 2020, envisioned a Democratic rout at the polls and promised, "Literally, they're on a path to reelect the president, keep the Senate majority and flip the House." She also stood alongside Vice President Mike Pence at an event at which he touted Donald Trump's pressure campaign to get Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.

That was then. This was Monday: "This is not a joke. It's not a game," she said, according to AZCentral.com. "And for our country going forward and the standards that we have related to this process, I take my role very seriously. And I think that's what my constituents want me to do. And so, I am going to, when information is presented to me that's been investigated by people who are not being partisan, we will share and be in our role going forward."

Another GOP senator also signaled an openness this week to weighing Trump's wrongdoing. Though she decried a rush to judgment on both sides, Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski said she's following the "process" and looking for "facts on the ground" before making a determination. "I'm also trying to think to myself, if this set of facts were to be in front of me and the president was President Hillary Clinton as opposed to President Donald Trump, would I be viewing this in a different way? Because if I do, that's wrong. I shouldn't view whether what is right and what is wrong based on the political affiliation of the individual that we are considering," Murkowski said.

Given her history, Murkowski may actually be taking Trump's malfeasance seriously. McSally, on the other hand, clearly has her finger in the wind, and the winds have shifted.

[Theleviathan]

If your argument is that it shouldn't be predetermined either way, then it makes a lot more sense to wait and see what the "three black guys" -- and the prosecutors -- have to say before reaching any conclusions.

I too want to see how it plays out. Initial posts here accused the cops of a coverup. Such a claim is well beyond skepticism. A coverup, given the current state of information, is beyond unlikely and nothing like the situation in Chicago you linked.

[Dalak]

Cruel and violent would be easy to unravel. I just laid out several layers of absurd risk..pause..unnecessary huge risk! A racist, cruel, violent cop need not travel to another state to find three black guys to do something he clearly has no problem doing! Its significantly more risky than doing it himself. Involves no payoffs, threats, risk of snitching or anything else. Unlike the situation you just described which rewuires the most risk oblivious human on the planet or a mastermind. But your response, rather that to recognize the obvious absurdity, was to go further down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

That is not skepticism. That is making up your mind irregardless of the facts (based on your politics) and then letting your imagination go hog wild. That isn't justifiable skepticism. It's exactly what I said at the outset....conspiratorial nonsense.

So you wasted both our time denying something you've gone on to openly demonstrate. Fool is right. Stick with the one thing you said that made any sense.

You and I can both make up stories, but when I admittedly made up a story which I made clear wasn't something I believed . . you claim I obviously believe it and made up my mind it's the truth based on politics.


Since you refuse to settle down, rant on you crazy diamond!

Not taking a side -- just pointing out that there's no point in arguing about it until all of the facts are out there.

Yeah, the truth of this has been revealed to me by the above.

[Tami]

Trump Urged Top Aide to Help Giuliani Client Facing DOJ Charges

The client was a wealthy Iranian -Turkish gold trader.

[numberthirty]

Not taking a side -- just pointing out that there's no point in arguing about it until all of the facts are out there.

------
"Inspector General report shows at least 16 officers involved in cover-up of Laquan McDonald shooting"

"An internal report investigating 16 police personnel involved in covering up the 2014 shooting of Laquan McDonald by a former Chicago police officer was released on Wednesday after being kept secret for nearly three years.

The formerly confidential report, written in 2016 by inspector general Joseph Ferguson, revealed that several officers committed numerous ethical and internal violations in order to cover up former officer Jason Van Dyke’s shooting of the 17-year-old including giving false statements “to exaggerate the threat McDonald posed.”

According to the report, Anthony Wojcik, a former Chicago Police Department lieutenant who was at the scene, improperly disposed of three original general progress reports containing detectives’ handwritten notes of the statements of three civilian witnesses made the night of the shooting. He then "personally recreated the reports," before disposing of the original notes, the investigation showed.

The report also revealed that at least two officers, who were not fired after the inspector general’s investigation, untruthfully claimed they heard Van Dyke tell McDonald to drop a small weapon he was holding, and that the teen repeatedly ignored the officers calls to stay down.

The false statements served to "mischaracterize the events leading up to the McDonald shooting, and to thereby bolster a false narrative which might offer justification for the shooting," the report said.

The report found that the officers not only fabricated the details, they would not have been able to hear any interaction between Van Dyke and McDonald from where they were standing during the encounter. At least four officers who were present the night of the shooting failed to “visually and audibly record events” with in-car video systems, and were found to withhold and shield video evidence establishing what actually transpired between Van Dyke and McDonald, according to the report.

The inspector general recommended the firing of 11 individuals, but only four were let go, according to the NBC affiliate WMAQ. None of the four officers fired by the police board were charged criminally, however they were stripped of police powers and assigned to desk duty as their case proceeded, the Associated Press reported.

Former Sgt. Stephen Franko, who was fired for his role in the cover-up, was found to have reviewed and approved false reports submitted by Van Dyke and his partner regarding the night of the shooting.

Franko’s endorsement of those false statements "served to establish the false narrative that McDonald initiated an attack on Van Dyke,” the report stated."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...aquan-n1064401

There are people who are busy working out how the cops set this up even though it looks a lot like somebody tried to murder this guy less than a year ago.

Calling for looking at all of the facts is probably going to fall on deaf ears.