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  1. #8071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post

    This board isn't necessarily representative of my views, since I don't see a point in highlighting stuff that you guys already know and have considered.

    I'd be talking about different stuff if the most active posters were conservatives, and stories from Breitbart or Limbaugh weren't get any pushback.
    That doesn't really help us come to alternate conclusions as far as your views when all we have to go on is this board.

  2. #8072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Douthat, Hewitt and Thiessen's columns would count as right-wing media.

    Articles should be held to the same standards.

    I don't recall ever commenting one way or the other on the pieces you mention.

    The problem isn't one of bias but of accuracy. I wasn't saying the problem with some of the claims of racism was one of bias, but that the specific allegations were inaccurate. And that this makes conservatives less inclined to talk about serious points.
    You could not comment on them because I just posted them. I am just noting how I have seen many conservatives debate online and they pull that tactic a lot. At this point talking about the supposed liberal media is crying wolf to me, because conservatives use it to avoid personal responsibility a lot.

    And those articles actively refute what your article said.

    Also I do not really care about what conservatives think. I used to give conservatives the benefit of the doubt, but the election Trump has made me see conservativism in the most cynical way possible, an ideology that is morally and intellectually bankrupt, purposely contradicting itself to suit very cynical aims. Conservatives saying they will reduce the debt and then massively increasing it when in power is a feature, not a bug. Racism is just another blank in their world of purposeful contradictions.

    I can respect an individual conservatives as a person, but their ideology, their leaders and media pundits deserve nothing but scorn from me.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-15-2019 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #8073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Douthat, Hewitt and Thiessen's columns would count as right-wing media.

    Articles should be held to the same standards.

    I don't recall ever commenting one way or the other on the pieces you mention.

    The problem isn't one of bias but of accuracy. I wasn't saying the problem with some of the claims of racism was one of bias, but that the specific allegations were inaccurate. And that this makes conservatives less inclined to talk about serious points.
    Why should we bother having serious conversations with conservatives, on race or any other topic? You guys don't have any ideas, all you ever do is deny that there are any problems and label any attempt to fix anything as radical Marxism or whatever. But thankfully, I think America is finally wising up to the GOP's tactics, I'm sure that if a Democrat wins in 2020 they'll just go back to old Obama playbook of crying incessantly about the deficit, but after seeing Trump waste money left and right on all manner of useless junk these last few years, who will really buy that argument?

  4. #8074

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    That doesn't really help us come to alternate conclusions as far as your views when all we have to go on is this board.
    I have articulated my views numerous times. It's not going to happen every single post.

    I think the focus on views on the big issues neglects the topic. Whatever my views on abortion or the war in Afghanistan or Kamala Harris doesn't really factor into whether I'm right about a specific point. You could think I'm wrong about something else, but that's got nothing to do with whether Max Spier's allegation against Kavanaugh is grounds for impeachment hearings.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    You could not comment on them because I just posted them. I am just noting how I have seen many conservatives debate online and they pull that tactic a lot. At this point talking about the supposed liberal media is crying wolf to me, because conservatives use it to avoid personal responsibility a lot.

    And those articles actively refute what your article said.

    Also I do not really care about what conservatives think. I used to give conservatives the benefit of the doubt, but the election Trump has made me see conservativism in the most cynical way possible, an ideology that is morally and intellectually bankrupt, purposely contradicting itself to suit very cynical aims. Conservatives saying they will reduce the debt and then massively increasing it when in power is a feature, not a bug. Racism is just another blank in their world of purposeful contradictions.

    I can respect an individual conservatives as a person, but their ideology, their leaders and media pundits deserve nothing but scorn from me.
    My point was that I hadn't been able to comment on those articles before since it hadn't come up here. If your view is that I'm obligated to read three articles and a wikipedia page, and answer three complex questions, I disagree. I've always been on the opinion that we should be respectable of one another's time and not do the message board equivalent of the gish gallop, asking time consuming questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Why should we bother having serious conversations with conservatives, on race or any other topic? You guys don't have any ideas, all you ever do is deny that there are any problems and label any attempt to fix anything as radical Marxism or whatever. But thankfully, I think America is finally wising up to the GOP's tactics, I'm sure that if a Democrat wins in 2020 they'll just go back to old Obama playbook of crying incessantly about the deficit, but after seeing Trump waste money left and right on all manner of useless junk these last few years, who will really buy that argument?
    That's a really flawed way of looking at it, and a really low bar to clear (that there are no ideas.)

    It suggests a problem with your sources of information if you're not exposed to any conservative ideas at all.

    I will say it is a problem that conservatives pretty much abandoned worrying about the debt, embracing left-wing arguments on the topic. There has been some pushback on the right but it's kinda the equivalent of what would happen if Democrats figured climate change wasn't something to worry about. It's better to have a major party worried about the consequences on these things and pushing against excesses.

    Some conservatives feel that the Romney/Ryan ticket was punished for taking the debt seriously turning that issue into a political loser.

  5. #8075
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post


    For those who don't speak Spanish, Pendejo = Jerk or stupid or wanker (if your British)
    Let's not let that information get to Trump himself, though. I want him to think the posters are praising him. "The Puerto Ricans have given me a beautiful new nickname. I believe it's pronounced... Pen-DAY-ho."

  6. #8076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I have articulated my views numerous times. It's not going to happen every single post.

    I think the focus on views on the big issues neglects the topic. Whatever my views on abortion or the war in Afghanistan or Kamala Harris doesn't really factor into whether I'm right about a specific point. You could think I'm wrong about something else, but that's got nothing to do with whether Max Spier's allegation against Kavanaugh is grounds for impeachment hearings.

    My point was that I hadn't been able to comment on those articles before since it hadn't come up here. If your view is that I'm obligated to read three articles and a wikipedia page, and answer three complex questions, I disagree. I've always been on the opinion that we should be respectable of one another's time and not do the message board equivalent of the gish gallop, asking time consuming questions.

    That's a really flawed way of looking at it, and a really low bar to clear (that there are no ideas.)

    It suggests a problem with your sources of information if you're not exposed to any conservative ideas at all.

    I will say it is a problem that conservatives pretty much abandoned worrying about the debt, embracing left-wing arguments on the topic. There has been some pushback on the right but it's kinda the equivalent of what would happen if Democrats figured climate change wasn't something to worry about. It's better to have a major party worried about the consequences on these things and pushing against excesses.

    Some conservatives feel that the Romney/Ryan ticket was punished for taking the debt seriously turning that issue into a political loser.
    You are the one put that article up, you were expecting to people actively read it and say why Ross Douthat was correct or not. I simply decided to do the same thing, but put up 3 articles instead of one. You do not have to read all of them, if you demand people read your article and actively refute it, why I can't I do same thing, you could read one of my articles if you want everyone to read your's. If you want people to take Douthat seriously, why shouldn't one of the articles I posted get the same treatment?

    The point I am making is all this denial of racism in the GOP seems to be like an alcoholic who does not want to admit they have a problem. I trust my eyes and ears over someone like Douthat and I see racism from a lot of the GOP base, leaders and their media pundits.

    And frankly I would rather support people who think problems like climate change, structural racism, gun violence and income inequality are real and serious issues and will try to do something about them. That is better then supporting people who either deny or ignore those things and want to waste money on a wall to stop some phantom ''southern invasion''.

    And conservatives politicans have never cared about the debt, fiscal conservativism is a lie, they will always jack up the debt on upper class tax cuts and military spending and use that as an excuse to cut social programs. They only complain about the debt in opposition, they never do anything about it in power. Fiscal conservativism does not deserve any respect because of that, it is a con.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-15-2019 at 10:48 AM.

  7. #8077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Twitter Link




    This is the response BuzzFeed got from the FBI about their FOIA request

    If the FBI is saying that they won't provide it due to "Executive Privilege"

    Then a) Executive Privileged is usually only invoked when it involves communication between the President and someone else, so how does this related to the Kavanugh Investigation?
    b)Trump was interfering with a FBI Investigation
    Thanks for that info. I was wondering why Kamala Harris's tweet about Kavanaugh showed up on my Twitter. I thought all along this guy was a creep. His demeanor when testifying was pretty damning to me. Yet disappointingly there are people I know and family members who think Professor Ford was delusional or she was a tool of the left. What ever happened to the former college buddy of his that wouldn't testify? Seems like they let him slip away pretty easy.

  8. #8078

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    By the way, the drone attack on Saudi Oil production will mean crude oil prices will go through the roof.

    Fill up your car early tomorrow morning. And sell all your stocks if you haven't already.
    Yemeni rebels claimed credit for the attack.

    So of course, Sec. of State Mike Pompeo tried blaming Iran so we could still do some war there.
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  9. #8079

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Do you think the Times' announcement about this excerpt was done well?
    You have doubled down, because of course you did. Rather than give criticism to the indefensible, and are choosing instead to focus on the coverage.

    Meanwhile, Trump is telling Kavanaugh to sue for libel, and calling for "the Justice Department to come to his rescue".
    Last edited by worstblogever; 09-15-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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  10. #8080

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    You are the one put that article up, you were expecting to people actively read it and say why Ross Douthat was correct or not. I simply decided to do the same thing, but put up 3 articles instead of one. You do not have to read all of them, if you demand people read your article and actively refute it, why I can't I do same thing, you could read one of my articles if you want everyone to read your's. If you want people to take Douthat seriously, why shouldn't one of the articles I posted get the same treatment?

    The point I am making is all this denial of racism in the GOP seems to be like an alcoholic who does not want to admit they have a problem. I trust my eyes and ears over someone like Douthat and I see racism from a lot of the GOP base, leaders and their media pundits.

    And frankly I would rather support people who think problems like climate change, structural racism, gun violence and income inequality are real and serious issues and will try to do something about them. That is better then supporting people who either deny or ignore those things and want to waste money on a wall to stop some phantom ''southern invasion''.

    And conservatives politicans have never cared about the debt, fiscal conservativism is a lie, they will always jack up the debt on upper class tax cuts and military spending and use that as an excuse to cut social programs. They only complain about the debt in opposition, they never do anything about it in power. Fiscal conservativism does not deserve any respect because of that, it is a con.
    One article is less of an ask than three articles and three questions.

    I didn't also ask anyone to read the article. I just put it out there. They're free to ignore it.

    But pick an article from your three, and I'll give you my take.

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    You have doubled down, because of course you did. Rather than give criticism to the indefensible, and are choosing instead to focus on the coverage.

    Meanwhile, Trump is telling Kavanaugh to sue for libel, and calling for "the Justice Department to come to his rescue".
    Actually Trump told him to sue for liable.



    I don't think I really need to waste any time noting that the President's comment is pretty stupid.

    My standard on Kavanaugh has remained the same as it was during the hearings: we need someone credible who witnessed what happened to Ford or Ramirez, or could testify about experiencing a separate assault.

    I've been fine with holding Kavanaugh to a civil court standard, where based on the evidence you would comfortable ordering him to pay someone who says she's a victim a low to mid six-figure sum for medical/ therapy expenses. We would establish that this standard should hold for everyone else: anyone with the same level of evidence would also be held liable for such expenses.

  11. #8081
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    By the way, the drone attack on Saudi Oil production will mean crude oil prices will go through the roof.

    Fill up your car early tomorrow morning. And sell all your stocks if you haven't already.
    Been hearing that on my local news radio station all day. I will certainly take care of the former tomorrow.
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  12. #8082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    One article is less of an ask than three articles and three questions.

    I didn't also ask anyone to read the article. I just put it out there. They're free to ignore it.

    But pick an article from your three, and I'll give you my take.



    Actually Trump told him to sue for liable.



    I don't think I really need to waste any time noting that the President's comment is pretty stupid.

    My standard on Kavanaugh has remained the same as it was during the hearings: we need someone credible who witnessed what happened to Ford or Ramirez, or could testify about experiencing a separate assault.

    I've been fine with holding Kavanaugh to a civil court standard, where based on the evidence you would comfortable ordering him to pay someone who says she's a victim a low to mid six-figure sum for medical/ therapy expenses. We would establish that this standard should hold for everyone else: anyone with the same level of evidence would also be held liable for such expenses.
    Is there any rule that limits the number of articles I can post on a particular subject? I feel like a complex subject like this needs a lot of attention, the more information I gather, the better the context I can provide and I think you saying the accusation of racism against the GOP is done in bad faith and providing a Ross Douthat article to make that point, you are going to get some pushback on that. If you are going to make the argument that accusations of racism against the GOP are a cynical attempt to score political points with unfair smears, I can counter that Douthat is cynically ignoring the racism that exists within in the GOP for political purposes, that whitewashing the ugliness the party is putting forward is a cynical move and calling it is fair, IMO. If the GOP is providing cover for Trump when he tells people of color in Congress to go back to their home countries (even though most of them were born in the US and all are US citizens), how is that not racist? What can be called racist at that point? If the GOP is giving Trump cover on this issue, how are they not racist? I care more the truth then the feelings of conservatives, to say racism does not exist within the GOP is put the feelings of conservatives above the truth, which I will not do, I am sorry if this makes conservatives uncomfortable, but what is more important, what I think is the truth or someone's feelings?

    You can do whatever, time is precious, address or not address anything you want, I am no position to make you do anything. This article likely addresses the Ross Douthat the most head-on, so that may be the most interesting one to handle, to me these articles are just bolstering what is my point, that I do think the GOP has a real problem racism and just saying these accusations of racism are unfair liberal smears is being blind to the problem.

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/....html#comments

    Look at Doutht article, I feel like he is really cherry examples of what he thinks are unfair claims of racism, but that is not seeing the forest through the trees.

    One he says those are 4 things are not racist, okay but that is his opinion, not a fact.

    He sites Meddow's attempting to take Steven Menashi's support for Israel as a Jewish state as high brow ''white supremacy'', now you can argue that is a hot word that may not apply, but I can counter that the government of Isreal uses that as justification to make Arab citizens second class citizens, which I think is not just and is bigoted. It's not antisemitic to point out when the Israeli government is acting in an illiberal manner, to do otherwise is to put feelings above facts.

    The point of birth rates I can take to task as well, sure in theory that is not racist to discuss birth rates and wanting to increase it in the US, but white nationalists often attach a lot of stuff to that, insane conspiracy theories about a great replacement, so that does have some baggage at this point.

    I can address the other 2, but I am not familiar with them and I think that is irrelevant to my ultimate point.

    Maybe Olson was making fun if antisemites and maybe he was dog piled on by people who thought he was racist when he wasn't, I do not know enough to make that case.

    The problem with this cherry-picking ignores the far more obvious things that expose the GOP racism problem, like Trump telling people to go back to where they came from and saying a judge of Mexican descent is unfit to judge him and the GOP gives him cover for it. Saying those 4 things are not racism does not negate all the racism the GOP is promoting. These cherry-picked examples do not negate the ultimate truth of GOP racism.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-15-2019 at 03:03 PM.

  13. #8083
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    Criticising Israel isnt anti-semetic, its only seen as such because Nazis have used that as their excuse for so fucking long now.

    Also I think Kavanaugh needs to be removed, not so much for the sex stuff, which whilst most likely true is probably impossible to actually prove well enough to have anythinf show, but more because his partisan behaviour shows he's not fit for the role

  14. #8084
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    Yemeni rebels claimed credit for the attack.

    So of course, Sec. of State Mike Pompeo tried blaming Iran so we could still do some war there.
    Yes, one could just state that the aforementioned is 'fake news' and precede with the bombings.......
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  15. #8085

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    Yes, one could just state that the aforementioned is 'fake news' and precede with the bombings.......
    Trump and Pence have started trying to follow Pompeo's lead now, and repeat the dubious statement (which without evidence and given their track histories, is almost certainly a lie)...

    They're trying to do the Iraq War in 2003 again, but without the patriotism or ability to lean on 9-11, considering how the GOP tried to f*** over first responders not even a few weeks ago, and Trump's incessant lies about what he did on 9/11, versus what he actually did. Also, with even less troop readiness or competence, because Trump f***ed up getting out of Afghanistan only last week.
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